Re: The Dodal and the Payens

d'Allemagne lists Jean Dodal as being active from 1701-1715, and below him Jean Dodat 1701-1724. I have long wondered, given the paucity of information on any Jean Dodal/Dodali, whether Jean Dodat and Jean Dodal are one and the same. Interestingly, in what is possibly a typographic error, in the catalogue of donations given by Paul Marteau, the Dodal is listed as Jean Dodat 1701-15.

According to the BnF General Catalogue, Jean Dodat was born c1677 in Saint-Didier-au-Mont d'Or (Rhône) and died 1732-04-14 at Lyon (Rhône).

As Merchant-cardmaker in Lyon, they list him as active from 1700 to 1732, Saint-Nizier parish.

Son of Antoine Dodat, labourer of Saint-Didier-au-Mont-d'Or, and of Anne Liot.

His wife by first marriage was Dominique Lemaitre, widow of the merchant-cartier Jean Murat, September 1, 1700.

His wife in second marriage was Catherine Beaujolin, daughter of Jean Beaujolin, merchant-cartier, in the presence of the merchants-cartiers Antoine Mathieu and François Domon, July 10, 1721.

From this marriage, their sons Jean and Étienne became merchant-cartier in their turn.

Given this information, I was able to find the registration of his marriages in the St.Nizier parish records of religious acts quite quickly. In neither of these did he sign his name. As this was a general requirement for marriage registration, it is probable that he was illiterate.

From the registration of the marriage of Jean Dodat & Dominique Lemaitre, daughter of Merchant-Cartier Jean Murat we can find he was the son of labourer Antoinne Dodat & his wife Anne Liot of Saint-Didier-au-Mont d'Or (Rhône) and was a Cartier at that time.

Searching through the registration of baptisms for the following years I was able to find the registrations of three of their children, there may be more that I overlooked.

Marie Anne Dodat, April 9 1704. Daughter of Jean Dodat master cartier and Dominique Lemaitre his wife.
Vital Dodat, June 8 1706. Son of Jean Dodat Master cartier and of Dominique Lemaitre his wife.
Antoinette Dodat, July 26 1707. Daughter of Jean Dodat master cartier and of his wife Dominique Lemetre [sic] his wife.

June 17, 1721
Internment of "Dominique Lemaitre aged 55 years, wife of Jean Dodar [sic]Merchand Cartier".

July 10, 1721:
Marriage of "Jean Dodar [sic] merchant cartier widower and of Cathe [e superscript & underlined as an abbreviation for Catherine] Baujolin daughter of deceased Jean Baujolin merchant cartier"

Looking forward through the baptismal registrations following the marriage to his second wife I found the baptismal regristrations for seven childen:

Jean Dodat, November 1723: "son of Jean Daudar [sic] merchant cartier and of Catherine Beaujolin his wife."
Note: This registration has the signature of Jean Dodat, however, it is the signature of his godfather Jean Dodat of St. Didier. It was the custom for godparents to sign the registration of baptism. The accompanying signature is of his godmother Sibille Beaujolin [as the registrar writes it - her signature reads Sibile Bauejelin or Bauyelin].

In all the registrations that follow, his occupational title reverts back from merchant cartier to master cartier, and for the registration of his second and third son by Catherine Beaujolin, the variant in name of interest to us:

September 14, 1724: [capitalization mine]
Jean Etienne DODAL: "son of Jean DODAL master cartier and of Catherine Beaujolin his wife"

May 5, 1727: [capitalization mine]
Etienne DODAL: "son of Jean DODAL master cartier and of Catherine Beaujelin [sic] his wife"

June 24, 1728: [capitalization mine]
Antoine DAUDAL: "son of Jean DAUDAL Master cardmaker and of Catherine Beaujolin his wife"

December 28, 1729: [capitalization mine]
Jean Louis DAUDAT: "son of Jean DAUDAT Maitre Cartier and of Catherine Beaujolin his wife"

In the registration of their sixth child, the spelling reverts back from Dodal / Daudal to Dodat:

January 11, 1731:
Jeanne Marie Dodat: "daughter of Jean Dodat master cartier and of Catherine Beaujelin [sic] his wife"
Note: Of possible significance is that the godmother is Jeanne Marie MURAT. Presumable a relation through marriage to his first wife Dominique Lemaitre, widow of merchant cartier Jean Murat. Possibly an objection on her behalf led to a reversion back to Dodat?

July7, 1732:
Pierre Dodat: "son of# Jean Dodar [sic] master cartier and of Catherine Baujolin [sic] his wife"
Note: between the 'de' and Jean there is a mark like a single crossed hash #. Below the entry the note #deffunt [deceased].

Looking back from the registration of Pierre Dodat I found the registration of the internment of "Jean Dodat master cartier age 55" on April 14, 1732.

Based on his age of 55 at his death gives a birth year c.1776/77.

Jean Dodat is recorded as deputy of the cardmakers of Lyon for December 1701, 1702, 1703, 1707, 1717, 1718.

Three of his sons from his marriage with Catherine Beaujolin carried on in the cardmaking trade and served as deputies of the cardmakers of Lyon:

Jean Dodat [aîné] for 1762, 1763, 1769, 1773-1782.
Etienne Dodat for 1755,1759, 1760.
Pierre Dodat [cadet] for 1768

So, my thoughts are, could Jean Dodat and Jean Dodal be the same person? And could the Jean Dodal be from this period 1724-1730?
Why would he choose the variant name Dodal for his tarot deck? To distinguish his brand of tarot decks for export to those of his french suited cards for the domestic market? Did the choice have anything to do with his reversion from merchant cartier back to master cartier?

For d'Allemagne to give a period of activity 1701-1715 I presume he had access to some notary, registrar or guild records that gave this variant spelling during that period, or which even enabled him to identify that Jean Dodal and Jean Dodat as different people?

Re: The Dodal and the Payens

Thanks for all this valuable information that whips out my suspicion that Dodal could be a synonym for Payen. In French, Daudal and Dodal are pronounced in the same way, so this confusion on administrative certificates is easy to understand. In Dodat (or Daudat), the letter 't' is not pronounced, so if the person who declares the birth of a certain Dodal does not pronounce well the letter 'l', it will be written down with a 't'. So Daudat, Dodat, Daudal and Dodal could all be variations of the same name.

Re: The Dodal and the Payens

Despite there being strict regulations against the import of foreign decks of cards into Lyon, with the seizure of goods and heavy fines for anyone caught playing with or possessing them, nonetheless, illegal trade in foreign decks persisted. From the Municipal Archives of Lyon we have an example from the "procès-verbal de Thomas Chambault. 14 mars 1753". [Ref code: HH/28]

On March 14, 1753, the administrator of legal regulations upon playing cards visited the home of Thomas Chambault, an innkeeper at the port of Condrieu and the owner of a boat on the Rhône which he used to transport travellers between Lyon and Avignon. A search of his home discovered "twenty-four decks of cards with foreign portraits, folded in envelopes with the name, sign and bluteaux [?] of Jean-Pierre Payen, master cardmaker at Avignon", as well as several other foreign decks of card. He confesses that he has other cards in the hull of his boat and that on each trip he makes to Avignon he buys cards and sells them to anyone who asks for them on the way. Any he has left his wife sells to the audience at the cabaret. The cards are confiscated and he is fined 3,000 livre tournais for introducing foreign cards into the realm and a further 1,000 livre tournais for keeping them at his home.

Re: The Dodal and the Payens

Robert wrote: 17 Dec 2009, 08:12
The Dodal is made for export, as it clearly states on several cards. Export to where, I wonder?
The inventory [December 1670] of the workshop of Antoine Fédides merchant and master cardmaker Lyon gives us an idea of where the cardmakers of Lyon were exporting to at the latter part of the 17th century:

three pairs of "à baston" molds with their dressings estimated at 16 livre
a pair of "petit royal" card molds 6 livre
an assortment of "grands tarot" cards consisting of seven molds for front and last with their dressings 23 livre
an assortment of "petits tarots" with their dressings 10 livre
a pair of Paris portrait molds with their dressings 6 livre
a pair of German molds with their dressings 6 livre
two pairs of Provence portrait molds 5 livre
a pair of Piedmont portrait molds with their dressings 6 livre
five portrait molds consisting of two of Languedoc, one of Lyon and two of Burgundy with their dressings 20 livre
five other portrait molds: two of "petites cards" for Languedoc and various others with their dressings and some old boards the lot at 12 livre
seven gross and one dozen German "cartes fine" @ 12 livres 5 sol
sixty-five gross "cartes fine" specific to Languedoc @ 12 livres 5 sol per gross
five gross and a third "cartes fine" of piquet for Burgundy @ 10 livres
eleven dozen "cartes fines à la royale" @ 8 sols per dozen
three dozen "grands fines tarots" @ 3 livre per dozen

For more complete inventory see here: ... eu&f=false