Re: Omissions and Errors in translation of Papus's "Tarot Divinatoire"

mikeh wrote: 21 Feb 2020, 09:56 I cannot answer your question, huck, about the page number until I see the French of the second edition of Tarot des Bohemiens. It is not in the English translation of the 1889, nor would I expect it to be in the French of 1889. II only know that it is, however, on p. 187 of Tarot Divinatoire
Sorry, I'd a stupid error, my text is "Tarot der Zigeuner", so naturally not related to "Tarot Divinatoire" but to Tarot des Bohemiens.

Re: Omissions and Errors in translation of Papus's "Tarot Divinatoire"

I have one final omission to deal with: the omission of two charts. I also want to say that while I have been referring to the translation as Stockman's, she is probably not the one responsible for these omissions. The rearrangement of Papus's text, and so probably the consequent dropping of some of what Papus says about the individual triumphs, is due to the "editor", as a note explains. That would be "Antony Balfour, London 2008", who writes a preface taking credit for the re-arrangement to where "Papus obviously intended them to be". There he also extols Christine Payne-Towler's "groundbreaking" thesis that Christian's account of the tarot sequence was based on the "Fratre Lucis" secret initiation rituals. The back cover is devoted to some comments about Tarot Divinatoire by Payne-Towler herself.

Stockman's translation, however, is quite excellent.

The omission with which I am concerned is near the end of Divinatory Tarot, pp. 247-248, ... ge-002.jpg ... ge-003.jpg

On p. 247 (first link, right side of the page) he says, tenth line from the bottom "Here I give a table...", but there is no table to be seen.

The corresponding place in the French is pp. 158-159, where in fact there are two tables; neither is contained in the English edition. ... ge-003.jpg
The first table goes just below the sentence from which I quoted. The second would be at the end of the first paragraph on p. 248. So we have (here the French original for "in-depth" is "au fond"; after the table, the original for "progresses" is "se reporte", normally meaning "refers"):
This paragraph and part of the next added later: . In the first paragraph after the table, the first of the two numbers is the spelled out number on the left and the second number is that in the last two columns on the right in the same row. That number is the sum of the three numbers to the left of it. Those three numbers are the first, middle, and last of the seven numberal series to the left of them. For example, 4 = Quatre, which "se reporte" (progresses?] to the number 12 on the far right of the row, derived from 1 (first number of series), 4 (middle number) and 7 (last number of the series). The series are constructed such that its middle number will be the same as the written-out number on the far left.

The next paragraph shows how harmonious the result is. 6 is the feminine number of marriage, 3x2. Etteilla says I think in the 2nd Cahier, that 11 is the number of sin. 6 is the number of desire, first male number x first female number, 3x2, while 2 is the guardian between appearances and reality, which is crossed at death, 13. He is justifying the traditional French order of trumps by a kind of expanded Pythagoreanism (that is, I don't know where any Pythagorean ever said 11 was the number of sin and 13 was the number of death).

After the above comes a second table:

"Sans reste" means "withot cease", i.e. ad infinitum. I have no idea what the point of this second table is. There follows a paragraph which our editor has omitted, which I translate here; it does not explain the second table:
I am much extended, and foresee that I will be reproached for not being attached only to my subject. I protest that I have said nothing that is not part of it, and before continuing, it is time to talk about the Egyptian Sages who have provided us with the material.
After that comes the two Egyptian images from Lévi (pp. 249-250 of Stockman, then Papus's short paragraph about Levi (p. 248 of Stockman, out of place by a couple of pages), then the three Hindu drawings by Papus's artist (or, judging from the quality, Papus himself, pp. 251-253 of Stockman). Papus is presenting all of these as pages from the Book of Thoth.

Thus spake the inimitable Papus, restored to his tables.

Here is the French:
Je pourrais faire passer tout le livre de Thot dans les divisions en I, 2, 3, 5, et 7 livres par une immensité do calculs, dont l'alphabet trouvé m'indiquerait la formule et m'en donnerait toutes les clefs. Mais voici une table qui mettra dans la route ceux qui voudront interpréter à fond généralement le Livre de Thot.
[first table goes here]
On voit au premier aspect que 1, l'unité, se reporte à 10, 2 à 13, 3 à 16, 4 à 12, 5 à 8, 6 à 11, 7 à 14.

L'ordre, l'harmonie, le plus grand accord règne dans tous ces nombres, tantôt parce qu'ils sont d'accord, et tantôt parce que l'agent est attentif à son patient, tel que (6 sur 11): mais en général, il vaut mieux dire pour s'exprimer, qu'il y a 7 tons, ou 7 degrés distinctifs dans les 7 chaînes de l'alphabet et des formules. 2, centre de la formule, se rapporte à 13. J'ai dit, d'après les philosophes, que ce nombre était faible, qu'il était volontiers moindre que les sept nombres qui le suivent quoique 2 leur donne l'écoulement, le mouvement et-enfin les ordres de l'unité.

C'est le ministre zélé de 1, et le fidèle ami de 3, qui est le souverain des nombres, non compris l'unité, et enfin, 2 est le second diviseur du nombre parfait 6, et est de concurrence avec 3. 6 donne le signal du péché, comme son contraire en un sens ; car ici le péché est pris comme faiblesse; enfin l'intime de 2, il supporte le poids du n° 13, dont 2 a la charge ou la garde, non que ce poids soit contre la sage nature mais seulement pénible, car la mort est une perfection, quoiqu'elle soit, comme nous avons dù dire, un des plus grands signes de faiblesse ; mais c'est la perfection qui seule tend à la régénération, ainsi que l'avait purement entendu Pythagore.

[second table]

Je me suis beaucoup étendu, et je prévois que l'on me reprochera de n'être point uniquement attaché à mon sujet je proteste n'avoir rien dit qui n'en fasse partie et avant de continuer, il est temps de parler des Sages Égyptiens qui nous ont fourni la matière.
Note later same day: After initial posting, I added a paragraph and a half, interpreting the first table, which I have indicated by "Added later" in bold print.

Re: Omissions and Errors in translation of Papus's "Tarot Divinatoire"

Got you covered Mike!

Here's the 2nd edition of Le Tarot des Bohémiens from 1911: ... 5027216764

Took me a long time to find, but I got it! =)

Papus and Wirth evidently had a falling out sometime after they released the first edition in 1889. In retaliation, Papus removed Wirth's contributions to the text as well as his illustrations. Papus replaced them with Goulinat's art from Le Tarot Divinatoire.

Re: Omissions and Errors in translation of Papus's "Tarot Divinatoire"

Wonderful. 99 megabytes! If anyone outside the U.S. can't see or download it, send me a private message, and I can get it to you. I have gone through it to see what other differences there are between it and the English translation of the 1889, besides what you have mentioned. They are worth another thread. I still do not see the precise diagram he promised at the end of Tarot Divinatoire. Perhaps it is hidden in one of the new ones. I need to look at them more thoroughly.