Re: Petrarca Trionfi poem motifs in early Trionfi decks
Posted: 02 Nov 2023, 22:45
Thanks for the reference on Latin elegaic couplets. About them I now know at least that I know nothing, which is at least better than just knowing nothing.
Nathaniel wrote,
This hypothesis is confirmed by Robertet's son Francois's paraphrase:
Arsenal BnF 5065 makes a similar interpretation. Its quatrain is the same as the other two.
That is far from the meaning of Chastity as expressed by Laura's rejection of Petrarch, but it is approximately how you, Nathaniel, interpret the quatrain, too.
However, it seems to me that the meaning is quite different. Molinet gets part of it, with his phrase "Celebs Ciprigenam" in "Celebs Cipgrenam pessumdat vita dolosam", which I am assuming means "The celibates of Cyprus put to the bottom the deceitful life [i.e. Cupid]". These are the abstinent ladies participating in the rites of Ceres on Cyprus, as Ross has suggested.
Molinet deals with Thetis and Mt. Ida by substituting Venus, who seduced Aeneas there:
Nathaniel wrote,
So thanks also for giving us your source for the translation. But earlier you said,suppeditare is actually another bit of non-classical Latin in the quatrains. The first meaning given for this verb in The Dictionary of Medieval Latin from British Sources (DMLBS) is "to trample underfoot": https://logeion.uchicago.edu/suppeditare
If so, in the quatrain the word would, other things being equal, have had its classical meaning of "provided" or "supplied", and Robertet's error would have been to take "suppeditatur" in this medieval sense, as he seems to do, by having Love be "refrenée" (restrained). The latter is not the same as "suppeditatur" - the image could be of Cupid bound and not trampled on - but it is close; it fits the image below it in the manuscript, where Cupid is merely held to the ground under Chastity's feet, uninjured (so not "crushed," as you put it). To do so, Robertet has to add the words "Amour n'est pas lente" to the third line of the quatrain, and "mais" to the fourth, as if understood. So for:Robertet's translation of the quatrains is quite flawed. He makes several errors, no doubt due to the fact that the Latin of the quatrains is almost purely classical, to an impressive degree for the time—their author must have been quite thoroughly steeped in the works of Roman poets such as Virgil—whereas Robertet's own Latin was strictly medieval, as can be seen in his few surviving Latin works. There were several word meanings and phrases that he simply didn't grasp.
he gets:Nec pingui Cipro, nec molli floribus Yda,
In Cerere et Theti suppeditatur amor.
(Neither lush Cyprus, nor the pleasant flowers of Ida,
In Ceres and Thetis suppeditatur love.
which also mistakenly substitutes Tethys for Thetis, as though food and drink were what was meant.Car es [les?] delices de Cypre l’opulente,
Ne [ni?] es [les?] fleurs souefves d'Yde Amour n'est pas lente;
Mais par Seres et Tethys refrenée
Est folle Amour et challeur forcenée.
For [neither] the delights of opulent Cyprus,
Nor [?] the pleasant [?] flowers of Ida, is Love slow;
But by Ceres and Tethis restrained
Is crazy Love and frenzied heat.
This hypothesis is confirmed by Robertet's son Francois's paraphrase:
"Repas" suggests food and drink, and "refroidir et regler par compass" the action of restraint.Mais de Ceres et Thetis les repas
Font refroidir et regler par compas
Effrenée jeunesse l'amoureuse;
But of [by] Ceres and Thetis the meals
Serve to cool and regulate by compass
Frenzied youth, amorous.
Arsenal BnF 5065 makes a similar interpretation. Its quatrain is the same as the other two.
but the French translation of the last two lines (now five, in bold below) continues the misunderstanding:Arma pudicitie superando cupidinis arcum,
Hic dominum calcant, et sua tela premunt.
Nec pingiu [for pingui?] cipro, nec molli floribus Ida,
In cerere et theti suppeditatur amor.
"Mis en decadence" corresponds to "refrenée" in Robertet. But what is restrained is eating and drinking, i.e. Love in the sense of love of food and drink. So the meaning is "By neither drinking [Cyprus, sea] nor eating [Mt. Ida, land] too opulently is love restrained, but by eating [Ceres] and drinking [Thetys] soberly [i.e. with restraint].Pudicite par ses tresgrandes effors
Surmonte de la chair la poindure
Et la siegneur qui nest pas des plus fortz
Est mys au bas par abstinence dure
Pour biens mondains avoir en abundance
Boire et manger trop opulentement
Amours iamais n'est mis en decadence
Mais par susner et biure sobrement
Moyen par tout fait buire iustement
(Pudicitia by her great efforts
Overcomes the flesh puncture [the arrows of Cupid?]
And the lord who is not stronger
Is put down by hard abstinence
For worldly goods to have in abundance
Drinking and eating too opulently
Love never is put into decline
But by sustaining [eating?] and drinking soberly.)
[The] means by all made to drink correctly.
That is far from the meaning of Chastity as expressed by Laura's rejection of Petrarch, but it is approximately how you, Nathaniel, interpret the quatrain, too.
However, it seems to me that the meaning is quite different. Molinet gets part of it, with his phrase "Celebs Ciprigenam" in "Celebs Cipgrenam pessumdat vita dolosam", which I am assuming means "The celibates of Cyprus put to the bottom the deceitful life [i.e. Cupid]". These are the abstinent ladies participating in the rites of Ceres on Cyprus, as Ross has suggested.
Molinet deals with Thetis and Mt. Ida by substituting Venus, who seduced Aeneas there:
It seems to me, on the contrary, that Thetis is in the quatrain because Zeus's lust for her was restrained by his fear of the offspring such a union would produce, due to a prophecy about the son surpassing the father. So, for:Honneste vie a tel auctorité
Dessus Venus qu’elle pert sa beaulté
Et rit, quand voit gens happés d'amours folle.
Honest life [i.e. the celibates of Ceres] has such authority
Above Venus [substituted for Thetis] that she loses her beauty
And laughs when she sees people caught up in crazy love.
I get:Nec pingui Cipro, nec molli floribus Yda,
In Cerere et Theti suppeditatur amor.
or[Now] neither [the] lush Cyprus [of Venus] nor the soft flowers of Ida [of Venus],
In Ceres [the celibates] and Thetis [Zeus's lust restrained] is love put down
and the quatrain survives intact. Of the two, I think the first fits the theme of Chastity and the image on Robertet's page better - so yes, the medieval sense of suppeditatur. The theme of food and drink fits the second one better. That could be a secondary meaning, I suppose.{With] neither [the] lush Cyprus [still of Venus] nor the soft flowers of Ida [also of Venus],
In Ceres [the celibates] and Thetis [lusted after by Zeus] is Love supplied.