Re: Casa del Petrarca

91
mikeh wrote: 14 Nov 2022, 11:56 I cannot see where they claim that their catalog is exhaustive.
(...)
I notice that the 2016 Dal Ponte catalog fails to list Schubring, Callman, or Ortner in its bibliography.
In the "Prefazione" on page 9, Cecile Hollberg says that the catalogue is "complete" -
Il catalogo della mostra offre, tra l'altro, un repertorio completo dei dipinti oggi riferibili al pittore e un regesto di tutti i documenti sin qui noti che lo riguardano, inoltre la presenza di alcune opere di attribuzione non unanimente condivisa, vuole accrescere gli spunti e le riflessioni critiche.

The exhibition catalog offers, among other things, a complete repertory of paintings attributed to the painter today, and a register of all documents hitherto known concerning him. Additionally, the presence of some works of not unanimously shared attribution is intended to increase critical insights and reflections.
I think that Ada Labriola refers to it on page 66 of her paper "Da Padova a Firenze: l'illustrazione dei Trionfi," in Francesco Petrarca, I Trionfi. Commentario, Florence, 2012, pp. 59-115, where she follows Miklós Boskovits in the attribution to a "Master of Charles III of Durazzo."
Ad un momento di poco successivo risale la raffigurazione con il Trionfo della Gloria, dipinta sulla tavola frontale di un cassone fiorentino (un tempo a Monaco in collezione Mog). La tavola è stata attribuita ad un pittore ancora anonimo, il Maestro di Carlo III di Durazzo, la cui bottega a Firenze detenne un vero e proprio monopolio nella produzione di pannelli dipinti per cassoni (o forzieri, così come vennero chiamati nei documenti dell’epoca), tra gli ultimi decenni del Trecento e i primi vent’anni del Quattrocento. (10)

(10) Il pannello con il Trionfo della Gloria è stato attribuito al Maestro di Carlo III di Durazzo da Miklós Boskovits. Cfr. Boskovits 1991, p. 47 nota 14. Per l’attività dell’anonimo artista, si veda Sbaraglio 2010, pp. 107-109.

To a slightly later time [than turn of 14th century] dates the depiction of the Triumph of Glory, painted on the front panel of a Florentine cassone (once in Munich in the Mog collection). The panel has been attributed to a yet anonymous painter, the Master of Charles III of Durazzo, whose workshop in Florence held a veritable monopoly in the production of painted panels for cassoni (or coffers, as they were called in documents of the time), between the last decades of the 14th century and the first two decades of the 15th century. (10)

The panel with the Triumph of Glory was attributed to the Master of Charles III of Durazzo by Miklós Boskovits. See Boskovits 1991, p. 47 note 14. For the activity of the anonymous artist, cf. see Sbaraglio 2010, pp. 107-109.
https://www.academia.edu/36171892/Da_Pa ... _pp_59_115

The Boskovits 1991 reference is to the general bibliography at the end of the book, so I'm not sure what it is.

UPDATE:

Okay, it's the same cassone painting, definitely attributed to the Master of Charles III Durazzo, but now dated 1460! (is that a typo done twice?). Found it all, including the Boskovits reference, in a footnote to Paolo di Simone's essay "'Praetexti'. Sull'illustrazione dei 'Trionfi' di Francesco Petrarca," in Maria Antonietta Terzoli, Sebastian Schütze, eds., Petrarca und die bildenden Künste: Dialoge, Spiegelungen, Transformationen, Walter de Gruyter, 2021, pp. 167-169
Image
Image
Image
https://books.google.fr/books?id=G5Y9EA ... 22&f=false

Re: Casa del Petrarca

92
.... still in work

Mont Vetoux
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.1739221 ... 608!8i2304

Here is a useful timeline by petersadlon ... petrarch.petersadlon.com is generally of interest.
https://petrarch.petersadlon.com/timeline.html

I found a German article about Petrarca out of a sort of private wikipedia, I guess. I don't know, if all the details are correct .... ?
https://wiki.edu.vn/wiki16/2021/01/04/p ... wikipedia/
automatic translation
https://wiki-edu-vn.translate.goog/wiki ... r_pto=wapp
Petrarch was born on July 20, 1304 in the Tuscan city of Arezzo. He was the son of Ser Petracco and his wife Eletta Canigiani. His first name was Francesco Petracco, which was Latinized to Petrarch. Petrarch's younger brother [Gherardo, death year is unknown] was born in Incisa in the Val d'Arno in 1307. Dante Alighieri was a friend of his father.
Eletta Canigiani (c1280-1318)
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... 0000000021
Stemma Canigiani
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canigiani ... iani_2.jpg

Ser Petracco (1267—1326)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ser_Petracco

Gherardo Petrarca (brother, 1307 - mentioned in Petrarca's will 1370, then still living)
https://www.internetculturale.it/direct ... /25-a.html
automatic translation ... https://www-internetculturale-it.transl ... r_pto=wapp

Petersadlon ...
1311: Family goes to Pisa to meet the new Emperor Henry VII.
1312 : Family moves to Avignon. But because it is now the home of the Pope there is no housing and the family lives in Carentras, a small town just outside the city.
https://www.internetculturale.it/direct ... /25-a.html
Petrarch spent his early childhood in the village of Incisa, near Florence. He spent much of his early life in Avignon and near Carpentras, where his family followed Pope Clement V, who moved there in 1309 to begin the Avignon Papacy. Petrarch studied law at the universities of Montpellier (1316–20) and Bologna (1320–23) with a lifelong friend and schoolmate named Guido Sette. Since his father worked as a lawyer (notary), he insisted that Petrarch and his brother also study law. However, Petrarch was mainly interested in writing and Latin literature and considered these seven years wasted
Guido Sette, a friend, (1304 -1367/68), archbishop of Genoa from 1358 until his death
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_Sette
Lodewijk Heyligen, another friend, nickname "Socrates" (1304 - 1361), master of music from Belgium
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lodewijk_Heyligen
Angelo Tosetti, another friend, "Lelio", "Stefano Romano" (?), (1300/10 - 1360/63)
https://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/an ... rafico%29/
automatic translation ... https://www-treccani-it.translate.goog/ ... 0Angelo%20(Lello%2C%20Lelio,molto%2C%20del%201304%3B%20cfr.

Petrarca Museum in Fontaine-de-Vaucluse
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9220631 ... 080!8i3040
Image



Avignon - Mont Ventoux - Carpentras - Fontaine-de-Vaucluse
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Mont+Ve ... 922443!3e2

******************
Added:
Important list for a biography of Petrarca
https://d-nb.info/361282532/04
Last edited by Huck on 17 Nov 2022, 13:09, edited 1 time in total.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Casa del Petrarca

93
Ross wrote,
In the "Prefazione" on page 9, Cecile Hollberg says that the catalogue is "complete" -
Il catalogo della mostra offre, tra l'altro, un repertorio completo dei dipinti oggi riferibili al pittore e un regesto di tutti i documenti sin qui noti che lo riguardano, inoltre la presenza di alcune opere di attribuzione non unanimente condivisa, vuole accrescere gli spunti e le riflessioni critiche.

The exhibition catalog offers, among other things, a complete repertory of paintings attributed to the painter today, and a register of all documents hitherto known concerning him. Additionally, the presence of some works of not unanimously shared attribution is intended to increase critical insights and reflections.
Thanks for including the second sentence. It seems to me that Hollberg is only claiming completeness for the works definitely attributable to Dal Ponte. Having done so, she goes on to say that the catalog also includes "some works" for which attribution is not unanimous: "some" is different from "all". She is not claiming that the catalog includes all the works for which attribution is not unanimous. In any case, she is the director of the Accademia, not one of the Dal Ponte experts that curated the exhibition and wrote the rest of the catalog (Sbaraglio and Tartuferie). If you find anything in the curators' part excluding the Triumph of Fame cassone, let us know.

Ross cites Labriola that the work was done by the Master of Charles III: she says "The panel has been attributed to a yet anonymous painter, the Master of Charles III of Durazzo." She in turn cites Boskovitz, 1991. On Boskovitz, in my previous post I linked to an old post by me quoting one historian's summary dismissal of Boskovitz, at least regarding the artist. I reproduce it below, with the relevant passage highlighted in bold, from Jerzy Miziolek, n. 89 of "Cassoni istoriati with 'Torello and Saladin': Observations on the Origins of a New Genre of Trecento Art in Florence", Studies in the History of Art, Vol. 61, Symposium Papers XXXVIII: Italian Panel Painting of the Duecento and Trecento (2002), pp. 442-469:
Among the earliest cassoni istoriati are two almost identical representations of The Triumph of Fame (the whereabouts of both are unknown). One of them is reproduced in Mina Gregori, "Biennale Internazionale dell'Antiquariato, Firenze: Dipinti e sculture," Arte illustrata 2 (1969), 110, the other in Dorothy C. Shorr, "Some Notes on the Iconography of Petrarch's Triumph of Fame," Art Bulletin 20 (1938), 100-107. See also Rosa Prieto Gilday, "Politics as Usual. Depictions of Petrarch's Triumph of Fame in Early Renaissance Florence" (Ph.D. dissertation, University of Pittsburgh, 1996), cat. 6, fig. 4, with wrong dating. There is an early chest (c. 1390), presently housed in the Bargello, depicting The Expedition of the Argonauts, reproduced in Schiaparelli 1983, 2:pl. 156a. All three are ascribed by Boskovits and Fahy to the Master of Charles III (or Ladislas) Durazzo. It appears that none of them is by him but rather by another Florentine anonymous painter active at the turn of the fourteenth century; see Jerzy Miziolek, "The Origins of Cassone Painting in Florence," in Center 19. Record of Activities and Research Reports, June 1998-May 1999, National Gallery of Art, Center for Advanced Study in the Visual Arts (Washington, 1999), 100-104.
In this case, Boskovits and Fahy, and the others he cites (except the poor Ph.D. student), at least got the time period right. As for Callman and Schubring, who had a different opinion, they are ignored.

The other work you cited later, and gave a screen-shot of, cites more works, but fails to note that some of them made different attributions, e.g., Schubring and I assume Miziolek.

What I would like to see from the art historians, when there is some disagreement among published authorities (regardless of when they wrote) is a little more modesty, as well as a few actual arguments that acknowledge the breadth of divergent views. If there is more information now not available then, they need to say what it is. Otherwise, question marks after attributions are permitted. Truth is not necessarily with the historian of the latest publication date, the most biased bibliography, or the strongest degree of self-certainty.

Re: Casa del Petrarca

94
Written at 1 Feb 2013 ....
Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote: 01 Feb 2013, 10:24 Thanks for taking the time to extract those references, Mike. This is very good - now we're getting somewhere.

In addition to noting Florence and Venice as copying centers of the text, there seems to be an increase in the number beginning in the 1420s. These seven are probably too few to be used to draw firm chronological conclusions, but we could test this tendency when we get other such lists -

Late 14th
1400
1424
1426
1427
1431
1431


It definitely "takes off" in the mid-1420s. When you say these are "not nearly in the quantity we see after 1440", can you give a rough estimate for those after that date found in Webb?
This became in the development a sort of basic line, based on the studies of Webb by Mike ....
However .... before this we had collected a few things, which I had summarized with ...
Michael, do you know of other Trionfi editions "before 1441" beside those, which we have already mentioned (fragments in 1439, 1414 and one "first quarter in 15th century", possibly the not confirmed version in 1418 in Medici hands)?
Perhaps we should save these notes in a thread of its own ... "Trionfi editions before 1440". So, that one finds it , when new things appear. The popularity of the Trionfi poem is an important factor.
Recently I became aware, that Leonardi But if it is true, than it tells, that the Trionfi weren't very popular. Bruni didn't note the "Trionfi" in his Dante-Petrarca-biography of 1434 or 1436. I'm not sure, if this is correct. I need to check it with more patience.

Vita Dante and Petrarca ... the search engine don't recognize trionfi or triumphi or similar. But the text is difficult to read, so the search engine might err.
https://archive.org/details/LeViteDiDan ... 7/mode/2up

**************************
Michael, do you know of other Trionfi editions "before 1441" beside those, which we have already mentioned (fragments in 1439, 1414 and one "first quarter in 15th century", possibly the not confirmed version in 1418 in Medici hands)?

1439 was Barzissa in Milan ...
Ross in 2009: viewtopic.php?p=4834#p4834
in further discussions ...
search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keyw ... 9&start=10

******************

1414 started here ...
Mike in 1412: viewtopic.php?p=12920#p12920
did find two writers commenting on it as a source of illuminations pre-1440. J. B. Trapp, on p. 67 of "Petrarch's Laura: The Portraiture of an Imaginary Beloved" (Journal of the Warburg and Courtauld Institutes, 2001, vol. 64, pp. 55-192) says that the first illuminated manuscript of the Trionfi was in 1414. No source given, no indication of where.
The text is (or was) cod. it. 81, Bayerische Staatsbibliothek. It has 2 pictures ...
Image

Image
https://www.bsb-muenchen.de/sammlungen/ ... up-c3429-3
https://www.bsb-muenchen.de/sammlungen/ ... up-c3429-1

dated to 1414 and to Bologna

*******************

1418 started here, with Lorredan ...
viewtopic.php?p=12862#p12862
.... and came to Ross ...
viewtopic.php?p=12886#p12886
... and in this thread.

********************

"The first quarter of 15th century" is rather irrelevant, as it seems to be a humble 27 line quote from the text to the Trionfo of death.

It was given here ...
viewtopic.php?p=12887#p12887

The Marston MS 99, Italy, s. XV 1/4 is described here ...
https://pre1600ms.beinecke.library.yale ... ars099.htm
... and the note to the Trionfi text is ...
4. f. 134v [L]a nocte che segui l'orribel caso/...Ance che giorno gia uicin
n'agiunga.

Francesco Petrarca, Triumphi, Triumphus mortis II, vv. 1-27; F. Neri,
ed., Rime, Trionfi, e poesie latine (Milan and Naples, 1951) pp. 523-24.
... 27 lines of text ...
Last edited by Huck on 15 Nov 2022, 12:20, edited 9 times in total.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Casa del Petrarca

95
mikeh wrote: 15 Nov 2022, 09:29
Thanks for including the second sentence. It seems to me that Hollberg is only claiming completeness for the works definitely attributable to Dal Ponte. Having done so, she goes on to say that the catalog also includes "some works" for which attribution is not unanimous: "some" is different from "all". She is not claiming that the catalog includes all the works for which attribution is not unanimous. In any case, she is the director of the Accademia, not one of the Dal Ponte experts that curated the exhibition and wrote the rest of the catalog (Sbaraglio and Tartuferie). If you find anything in the curators' part excluding the Triumph of Fame cassone, let us know.
Wow, you've really moved the goalposts here. Since your unspoken demand was for everything ever attributed to Giovanni dal Ponte by anybody, let me ask you for an example of such a catalogue. Can you refer me to a catalogue of ALL the misattributed works of an artist? I'd like to see what you are thinking of.

In this case, Boskovits and Fahy, and the others he cites (except the poor Ph.D. student), at least got the time period right. As for Callman and Schubring, who had a different opinion, they are ignored.

The other work you cited later, and gave a screen-shot of, cites more works, but fails to note that some of them made different attributions, e.g., Schubring and I assume Miziolek.
Miziolek is here -
https://www.nga.gov/content/dam/ngaweb/ ... ter-19.pdf

He is not dismissive of Boskovits, he merely posits that it's an unknown cassone painter (page 104):
There appears to be a missing person in this story, a cassone maker living at the end of the fourteenth century whom Donatello might have assisted. This unknown artist ran a workshop in which numerous chests were produced.
This is also Labriola's opinion.

In any case, Miziolek is not keeping the door open for Giovanni dal Ponte here, since he was born in 1385. It might be that the dating "1420" for the Trionfo della Gloria was made precisely to allow Giovanni to have painted it. But the current consensus, including Labriola and Miziolek, is that it is much earlier, around 1400.

Giovanni's earliest works in the catalogue are three Madonna with Child panel paintings (numbers 29, 32, 93; see the analytical list at the end of this post - viewtopic.php?p=24699#p24699), after 1405. Boskovits himself is the source of one of the attributions. Another is "doubtful."

Personally, I don't see anything in the Gloria that screams "Giovanni dal Ponte!" If not the Master of Charles III Durazzo, then I'm content with an anonymous artist who was NOT Giovanni dal Ponte.

Re: Casa del Petrarca

96
Ross: So "current consensus" includes 1999 and 2012 but not 1998 (Ortner)? And Dal Ponte is competent to paint a cassone in 1420, when he is 35 years old, but not earlier, when, for example, he is 25, in 1410, or 20, in 1405? And the experts of 1999-2010 (as opposed to 1999) can date a cassone, not assuming a particular artist in advance, to "ca. 1400" as opposed to "ca. 1405," "ca. 1410," or even "ca. 1420", given that particular styles can persist for decades? I do not think that art history is that exact a science, even today, especially when all it has is old black and white photographs to work from.

I do not say that those who date the cassone to 1400 as opposed to 1420 are wrong, but I think arguments are needed, beyond asserting that it is similar to other works whose provenance is also unknown. What are the similarities that uniquely associate them (I mean, that are not in common with other works not so identified), and how do we know when they were made? They may have done so, but without seeing the arguments I can't say if they overcome my skepticism.

Re: Casa del Petrarca

97
Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote: 15 Oct 2012, 15:28 So now we have other names associated with the early transmission of the Trionfi -

Francescuolo da Brossano
Lombardo della Seta
Giovanni Boccaccio
Giovanni Dondi
Ross added then also a note of the web (now lost) ...
"The Triumphs were probably undertaken around the mid-thirteenfifties and the writing took a long time: from 1357 to 1374. Nevertheless, they were not written in final draft and they did not circulate, not even partially, during Petrarch's life. Shortly after his death, Giovanni Boccaccio first and Giovanni Dondi later, asked both to Francescuolo da Brossano and Lombardo della Seta for news about the work, as they were in charge of Petrarch's writings and had to take care of its first circulation."
This was in 2012 and in this thread "Casa del Petrarca" ....

------------------
Forum search Lombardo della Seta
search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=seta

Italian wiki (wiki article not available in other languages)
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lombardo_della_Seta
Italian wiki translation
https://it-m-wikipedia-org.translate.go ... r_pto=wapp

treccani.it Lombardo della Seta
https://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/lo ... rafico%29/
Treccani.it translation
https://www-treccani-it.translate.goog/ ... r_pto=wapp
-------------------
Forum search Francescuolo da Brossano, son-in-law, husband of Petrarca's daughter
search.php?keywords=brossano

English wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francescuolo_da_Brossano

treccani.it Francescuolo da Brossano
https://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/fr ... rafico%29/
treccani translation
https://www-treccani-it.translate.goog/ ... r_pto=wapp
-------------------
Forum search Giovanni Dondi
search.php?keywords=dondi&t=868&sf=msgonly

English wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_ ... 27Orologio
this and also other language wikis contain not much about his relation to Petrarca

treccani.it Giovanni Dondi
https://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/gi ... ografico)/
treccani translation
https://www-treccani-it.translate.goog/ ... r_pto=wapp
Petrarca is noted 37 times in this text
---------------------

Boccaccio died (16 June 1313 – 21 December 1375) relative soon after Petrarca (20 July 1304 – 18/19 July 1374).
Boccaccio is said to have asked for the Trionfi manuscript after the death of Petrarca. Is there any information about this ? Or about a letter between Petrarca and Boccaccio, in which the Trionfi manuscript is mentioned?
Huck
http://trionfi.com