Re: Collection for 9 Worthies, 9 Helden and neuve preux

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https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/a ... alCode=spc
The Heraldry of Hector or Confusion Worse Confounded
by Roger Sherman Loomis
... the article points to the pageant in Arras in the year 1336 (in relation to the 9 Worthies)
In the footnotes I found ...
"The Parlement of the Three Ages, ed. I. Gollancz (London 1915), vss. 300-583" .... between some others, I found the following, which is not the text of 1915, but it contains on the verses 300-583 a text, which relates to the 9 Worthies.
Interestingly this work does not contain the words "Arras" or "1336". The text is written in Old English, I assume (but I'm stupid in this question).

****************

https://d.lib.rochester.edu/teams/publi ... -thre-ages

Introduction page
https://d.lib.rochester.edu/teams/text/ ... troduction
The Parlement of the Thre Ages and Wynnere and Wastoure are the last two items in British Library Additional MS 31042, a miscellany of religious histories, verse romances, poems by John Lydgate, carols, and other devotional or ethical poems, all compiled by Robert Thornton, probably around 1450.1 Thornton was a man of some prestige in Yorkshire; if, as seems likely, he copied these works for himself and his family, his collection is a good example of the fondness which the English middle class had for devotional literature and historical romance in the late Middle Ages.
1st text presentation
https://d.lib.rochester.edu/teams/text/ ... d-wastoure
Winnere and Wastoure

2nd text presentation
https://d.lib.rochester.edu/teams/text/ ... -thre-ages
The Parlement of the Thre Ages (this contains the passage 300-583)
Ector = Hektor (verse 300) .... 31 lines
Alysaunder = Alexander (332) .... 73 lines
Sezere and Julyus = Julius Caesar (405) .... 32 lines

Josue = Josua (436) .... 6 lines
David (442) .... 12 lines
Judas Machabee = Judas Maccabeus (454) .... 10 lines

Arthure = Arthur (464) .... 49 lines
Godfraye de Bolenn = Godfrey of Bouillon (513) .... 7 lines
Cherlemayne = Charlemain (520) .... 63 lines
by: Warren Ginsberg (Editor)
from: Wynnere and Wastoure and The Parlement of the Thre Ages 1992

******************

This is the text of Arthure .... it's one of the longer texts. Some are rather short.
Of the thre Cristen to carpe couthely thereaftir,
That were conquerours full kene and kyngdomes wonnen,
Areste was Sir Arthure and eldeste of tyme,
For alle Inglande he aughte at his awnn will,
And was kynge of this kythe and the crowne hade.
His courte was at Carlele comonly holden,
With renkes full ryalle of his Rownnde Table,
That Merlyn with his maystries made in his tyme,
And sett the Sege Perilous so semely one highte,
There no segge scholde sitt bot hym scholde schame tyde,
Owthir dethe withinn the thirde daye demed to hymselven,
Bot Sir Galade the gude that the gree wanne.
There was Sir Launcelot de Lake full lusty in armes,
And Sir Gawayne the gude that never gome harmede,
Sir Askanore, Sir Ewayne, Sir Errake Fytz Lake,
And Sir Kay the kene and kyd of his dedis,
Sir Percevalle de Galeys that preved had bene ofte,
Mordrede and Bedwere, men of mekyll myghte,
And othere fele of that ferde, folke of the beste.
Then Roystone the riche kyng, full rakill of his werkes,
He made a blyot to his bride of the berdes of kynges,
And aughtilde Sir Arthures berde one scholde be;
Bot Arthure oure athell kynge another he thynkes,
And faughte with hym in the felde till he was fey worthen.
And than Sir Arthure oure kyng ames hym to ryde;
Uppon Sayn Michaells Mounte mervaylles he wroghte,
There a dragone he dreped that drede was full sore.
And than he sayled over the see into sere londes,
Whils alle the beryns of Bretayne bewede hym to fote.
Gascoyne and Gyane gatt he thereaftir,
And conquered kyngdomes and contrees full fele.
Than ames he into Inglonde into his awnn kythe;
The gates towardes Glassthenbery full graythely he rydes.
And ther Sir Mordrede hym mett by a more syde,
And faughte with hym in the felde to alle were fey worthen,
Bot Arthur oure athell kyng and Wawayne his knyghte.
And when the felde was flowen and fey bot thaymselven,
Than Arthure Sir Wawayne athes by his trouthe
That he swiftely his swerde scholde swynge in the mere,
And whatt selcouthes he see the sothe scholde he telle.
And Sir Wawayne swith to the swerde and swange it in the mere,
And ane hande by the hiltys hastely it grippes,
And brawndeschet that brighte swerde and bere it awaye.
And Wawayne wondres of this werke, and wendes bylyve
To his lorde there he hym lefte, and lokes abowte,
And he ne wiste in alle this werlde where he was bycomen.
And then he hyghes hym in haste and hedis to the mere,
And seghe a bote from the banke and beryns thereinn.
Thereinn was Sir Arthure and othire of his ferys,
And also Morgn la Faye that myche couthe of sleghte.
And there ayther segge seghe othir laste, for sawe he hym no more.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Collection for 9 Worthies, 9 Helden and neuve preux

3
Image



Some texts ...

https://deriv.nls.uk/dcn23/1075/9354/107593548.23.pdf ..... VOLUME I
Thee Scottish Text Society: The Buik of Alexander
OR
THE BUIK OF THE MOST NOBLE AND VALIANT CONQUEROUR ALEXANDER THE GRIT
BY JOHN BARBOUR, ARCHDEACON OF ABERDEEN
( = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Barbour_(poet))
EDITED, IN FOUR VOLUMES, FROM THE UNIQUE PRINTED COPY IN THE POSSESSION OF THE EARL OF DALHOUSIE, WITH INTRODUCTIONS, NOTES AND GLOSSARY, TOGETHER WITH THE FRENCH ORIGINALS (LI FUERRES DE GADRES AND LES VOEUX DU PAON) COLLATED WITH NUMEROUS MSS.
By R. L. GR/EME RITCHIE, D.Litt PROFESSOR OF FRENCH LANGUAGE AND LITERATURE IN THE UNIVERSITY OF BIRMINGHAM
VOLUME I.
CONTAINING PART I. OF THE BUIK OF ALEXANDER (NAMELY PP. 1-106) AND LI FUERRES DE GADRES,
EDITED FROM MS. 264 OF BODLEY’s LIBRARY

https://digital.nls.uk/publications-by- ... /106077320 .... VOLUME II
https://digital.nls.uk/publications-by- ... /106077329 .... VOLUME III
https://digital.nls.uk/publications-by- ... /106077333 .... VOLUME IV

**************

https://www.persee.fr/doc/bec_0373-6237 ... 5_1_447242
Philippe le Bel et la maison de Luxembourg
Eugène Welvert
Bibliothèque de l'École des chartes Année 1884 45 pp. 180-188

**************

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/p ... 086/387408 .... or https://archive.org/details/jstor-43344 ... 1/mode/2up
THE NINE WORTHIES
by JOHN HAWLEY ROBERTS (1922)

**************

https://books.google.de/books?id=NXY9AQAAMAAJ&newbks
Introduction. Kyng Alisaunder. Sir Cleges. Lay le Freine
by Henry Weber
A. Constable and Company, 1810

***************

https://mittelalter.hypotheses.org/5049 ... %20dürften.
Die Öffnung des Sarkophags Kaiser Heinrichs VII. in Pisa, 2015
by Martin Bauch

****************

Armorial de GILLES LE BOUVIER, dit BERRY, héraut d'armes du roi Charles VII.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armorial_ ... Le_Bouvier
Pictures ....
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... .item.zoom ... Hektor, Alexander, Caesar
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... .item.zoom ... Josua, David, Judas Makkabeus
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... .item.zoom ... Arthur, Charlemain, Gottfried of Bouillon

*****************

Balduin von Luxemburg, Erzbischof und Kurfürst von Trier (1308-1354)
Vorträge eines Kolloquiums in Trier im Juni 2008 ... Herausgegeben von Reiner Nolden
https://www.mgh-bibliothek.de/dokumente/b/b073819.pdf

Heinrich VII, Biographie
https://www.deutsche-biographie.de/sfz53172.html

******************

Die Basler "Neun Helden" : ein Beispiel aus dem Forschungsprojekt "die oberrheinischen Bildteppiche der Spätgotik"
Autor: Stucky-Schürer, Monica
Zeitschrift: Zeitschrift für schweizerische Archäologie und Kunstgeschichte = Revue suisse d'art et d'archéologie = Rivista svizzera d'arte e d'archeologia = Journal of Swiss archeology and art history, Band (Jahr): 44 (1987)
https://www.e-periodica.ch/cntmng?pid=z ... 4%3A%3A374

******************

Karl Josef HÖLTGEN, Die „Nine Worthies". Anglia 77 (1959) 279-309
Last edited by Huck on 07 Nov 2022, 06:07, edited 1 time in total.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Collection for 9 Worthies, 9 Helden and neuve preux

4
Huck wrote: 05 Nov 2022, 12:17 https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/a ... alCode=spc
The Heraldry of Hector or Confusion Worse Confounded
by Roger Sherman Loomis
... the article points to the pageant in Arras in the year 1336 (in relation to the 9 Worthies)
In the footnotes I found ...
"The Parlement of the Three Ages, ed. I. Gollancz (London 1915), vss. 300-583" .... between some others, I found the following, which is not the text of 1915, but it contains on the verses 300-583 a text, which relates to the 9 Worthies.
Interestingly this work does not contain the words "Arras" or "1336". The text is written in Old English, I assume (but I'm stupid in this question).
The relevant note for Arras 1336 is Loomis's note 3, which is just to Bulletin de la Societe des Anciens Textes Francaises, 1883, p. 48, although on the next page we learn that the author is Paul Meyer. Loomis only quotes the part about Hector:
Apres le sarrasin Hector, Jaques de Troyes, bourgeois de St. Quentin, qui porta pour la journee d'or a ung geulle de sable a deux testes, et ses droites armes dont brullees 4 d'argent et geulles a ung lyon de sable rampant.
The source is that already cited by Pickford, Bulletin de la Societe des Anciens Textes Francais, 1883. Pickford had cited, for Arthur, p. 47.

What is interesting is the word "geulles". Loomis says that
Paul Meyer has already suggested, with good reason, that the word geulle is an error for aigle 5 (or, more probably, egle), and since the account omits the entries for Alexander and Julius Caesar it is, therefore, nearly certain that the scribe, either because of a gap in his source manuscript or through the accidental skipping of a passage, has attached to Hector the double-headed eagle which was the conventional device of Julius Caesar and regularly so appears in the portrayals of the Nine Worthies. This attribution of the imperial eagle to Hector is the first of the blunders which we shall come across.
5. Bulletin S.A.T.F., 1883, p. 48, note 1.
You will recall that Pickford 1955, p. 374, which I cited at viewtopic.php?p=25532#p25532, has for Arthur:
Roy Artus, Cordelier Poulet, bourgeois de Compiengne, qui porta pour la journee d’or a iij camp de guelle. Et ses droites armes sont d’or a ung cordelier tenant unes patenostres.

Whether "guelle" and "geulle" are meant as the same word, one a scribal error, nobody asks. Pickford then comments:
The word camp poses a problem, for here it makes very little sense. Paul Meyer suggests couronnes as a possible alternative reading, providing that red crowns could be allowed. He adds that normally Arthur’s arms are blue with three gold crowns. It is clear that the text is corrupt at this point, and perhaps the scribe intended to convey the idea of three gold crowns on a red field, a shield which Arthur sometimes bears. Although this text is not very helpful in determining the arms of Arthur, the other representations of him as a Christian Worthy make it clear that the crest of the three crowns was the normal one.
I understand "camp" as "field". So is Meyer's suggestion that the word "couronnes" is left out, after "iij"? I cannot see how "camp" could simply be dropped, in favor of "couronnes". And could "guelle" mean "red"? I have no idea. It would be good to see Meyer's article.

The part of "Voeux du Paon" about Arthur is on the same p. 374 of Pickford.
D’Artus qui tint Bretaingne va le bruit tesmoingnant
Que il mata Ruiston .j. jaiant en plain champ,
Qui tant par estoit fort, fier et outrecuidant
Que de barbes a roys fist faire .i. vestemant,
Liquel roy li estoient par force obeissant;
Si volt avoir 1’ Artus, mais il i fu faillant !
Sur le mont saint Michiel en r’ocist .i. si grant
Que tuit cil du pays en furent mervellant.
En plusours autres lieus, se bistoire ne ment,
Vainqui li rois Artus maint prince outreement.
Loomis's reference for the part on the 9 worthies as a whole is in note 2. One is to Gallancz's Parlement, "Appendix VI." As far as I can tell, it is Appendix II; the Gothic letters are difficult to read. It starts on p. 121, for which see https://archive.org/details/cu319240131 ... 5/mode/2up. On p. 123-4
115 N'Artus qui tint Bretaingne va le bruit tesmoingnant
Que il mata Ruston, .j. jaiant, en plain champ,
Qui tant par estoit fort, fier at outreciudant
Que de barbes de rois fist fere ,j. vestement,
Liquel roi li estoient par force obeissant;
120 Si vost avoir I'Artus mais il i fu faillant.!
Sus le mont saint Michiel en roccist .j. si grant
Que tuit cil del pais en furent merveillant.
En plusors autrez lieus, se I'estoire ne ment,
Vainqui cil rois Artus maint prince outrequidant.
Except for a few words, notably the last one, these are much the same.
He also includes a translation into Middle English of that part.
Of thir thre christin men I can tell heir,
That neuer na better in warld weir,
240 Arthur that held Britane the grant.
Slew Rostrik that stark gyant.
That was sa stark and stout in deid.
That of Kingis beirdis he maid ane weid,
The quhilk Kingis alluterly,
245 War obeysant to his will all halely,
He wald haue had Arthouris beird,
And failzeit for he it richt weill weird ;
On mount Michaell slew he ane,
that sik ane freik was neuer nane,
250 and ma gyantis in vther places sua.
Galancz's appendix II includes many other early texts mentioning the three worthies. Otherwise, there is a vast scholarly literature, including about Giotto and Petrarch's treatment of it (on this "The "Battle of Zama" after Giulio Romano: A Tapestry in the American Academy in Rome" parts 1 and 2) and the frescoes in Piedmont, the same place as the fountain of youth.

Also, if any reader who does not know about the "9 worthies" is wondering, the "thre Cristen" (and which appears again in the Middle English translation of "Payon") that Huck put in red in the long quote from "Parlement" refers to the "three Christians" among the 9, usually put last in the list, after the 3 pagans and the 3 Hebrews.

Re: Collection for 9 Worthies, 9 Helden and neuve preux

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More about 1336: the article by Paul Meyer is at
https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/ ... &bsq=Artus

What he says, in his note to the word "camp" is:
Cela n'a pas de sense: on pourrait proposer couronnes s'il pourrait possible d'admettre des couronnes de gueles.

(This does not make sense: one could propose crowns if it would be possible to admit crowns of gueles.)
His only defense of this reading is that the usual heraldic for Arthur is three crowns. In other words, the argument for three crowns in 1336 Arras is only that "couronnes" might be left out. Is "camp" then a mistake? "Camp de gueles" makes perfect sense: field of red, it seems to me (even though usually it was a field of azure blue).

This word "gueles" must be what is given on Wiktionary as "gueules", https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gueules, defined as "red color of the blazon." In English it is spelled "gules."

What is unclear is three of what. It seems to me that unless otherwise stated, "gueles" might mean vertical bars, i.e. lines, as at https://www.yourdictionary.com/gules
(heraldry) The blazoning term for red, e.g. on a coat of arms, typically represented in engraving by vertical parallel lines.
So that is another possibility, even though "3 field of red vertical lines" (for " iij camp de guelle") doesn't make a lot of sense. The other possibility is that "couronnes" was left out after iij, perhaps replacing "camp." If "camp" is left out, it would be three red crowns (they were usually gold), as Pickford supposed. If not, it would be three crowns on a field of red (usually azure).

Re: Collection for 9 Worthies, 9 Helden and neuve preux

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I detected the webpage "9 Helden", published at December 2020 by Jennifer Krieger
https://www.compendium-heroicum.de/lemm ... l_13251333
I arranged an automatic translation ....
https://www-compendium--heroicum-de.tra ... l_13251333

She describes the content of Jacques de Longuyon: "Les vœux du paon" ....
2.1. Jacques de Longuyon: "Les vœux du paon" (1312)
The Nine Heroes first appear as a group in the poem Les vœux du paon by Jacques de Longuyon , dated 1312 . 4 The title of the poem refers to the oaths taken by knights in the early 14th century. The appeal to certain ideals and agreements took the form of vows uttered on behalf of certain birds; thus Longuyon's writing refers to an oath taken in the name of the peacock. 5 On behalf of the bishop of Liège, Longuyon wrote the verse epic related to the deeds of Alexander the Great and transferred the theme to courtly language with the title of the work. 6The storyline of the romance is the battle for the city of Epheson, which is besieged by the Indian king Clarus. The lady of Fesonas had refused him her hand, so Alexander rushed to her and selflessly offered Fesonas his help. Longuyon embeds the stanzas dealing with the Nine Heroes in the depiction of the decisive battle between the Indian besiegers and the defenders of Epheson. Within the poem, Longuyon devotes a separate verse to each hero, describing their most important exploits.

Thus, Hector was particularly distinguished by his fighting performance during the Trojan War. He ran the city's official business and, according to Longuyon's version, defeated nineteen kings and more than a hundred generals and counts. Alexander the Great is honored above all by the description of his victory over Nicholas, the Persian king Darius and the conquest of Babylon. Iulius Caesar's qualities as general and conqueror of England, Alexandria, Africa, Arabia, Syria and Egypt, as well as his victory over Casibilanus and Pompey, are praised in the French poem. In the group of Old Testament heroes, Judas Maccabeus distinguished himself above all by killing Apollonius, Antiochus and Nicanor. Joshua divided the floods of the Jordan through his pious prayer, which made it possible to cross the river. The poet also praises Joshua's victory over the twelve kings. Longuyon praises David's successful fight against the giant Goliath as an exemplary act. Among Christian heroes, King Arthur distinguished himself as ruler of Britain by defeating the giant Ruston, whose robe was fashioned from the beards of vanquished kings. Charlemagne was notable for his successful battles in France, Spain and the Kingdom of Pavia. In Jerusalem he is said to have reintroduced baptism and the holy sacraments. The youngest of the series of heroes, Godfrey of Bouillon, is credited with defeating Sultan Suleiman as an outstanding deed. As the deliverer of the city of Jerusalem, his coronation as king is duly commemorated in the last verse.

Likewise, Longuyon's arrangement and selection of each hero must also be given special attention. This is how the group can be broken down, starting with the ancient heroes Hector, Alexander and Caesar; about the Old Testament heroes Joshua, David and Judas Maccabeus; up to the Christian heroes Arthur, Charlemagne and Godfrey of Bouillon also in a chronological context. As in a chronicle of world history, outstanding personalities and deeds are recorded for posterity. Accordingly, the nine heroes stand for historical periods that were significantly shaped by their actions. In this respect, each of the heroes represents an important turning point in the story. The story is told from antiquity, beginning with Hector's battle for Troy,
... and then she describes Jan van Boendale's "Leken Spieghel" (1325–1333). This is a new topic in the discussion about "Les vœux du paon" (as far I know it) and that is very interesting.
Jan van Boendale's "Der Leken Spieghel" (1325–1333)
Following Longuyon's canon of heroes, the Dutch writer Jan van Boendale wrote "Der Leken Spieghel" between 1325 and 1333 (Dutch: lay mirror). In encyclopedic form, Boendale collected knowledge necessary for a moral and exemplary life. In his folk book, the story of the Nine Heroes is embedded in a narrative that begins with Adam and Eve. The history of the Old Covenant and the life of Jesus Christ follow. Following the Roman and Christian story, the narrative ends with the return of Christ to earth and the anticipation of the beginning of his thousand-year kingdom. This is followed by a moral teaching, “in which the poet admonishes the princes to pursue a policy that serves the common good, in which parents are encouraged to give their children thorough instruction, the gluttons are encouraged to moderation and the poets to uphold morals”.
For the following consideration of the Nine Good Heroes in the Hansasaal in Cologne, Boendale's work is of importance because very little literary evidence of the Nine Heroes topos is known in Germany. (Footnote 9) A Low German poem, which corresponds to a Ubi sunt formula, tells of the death of the individual Nine Heroes and refers to their earthly transience. However, the poem, written at the end of the 14th century, does not tell of the glory of the heroes and their brave deeds. The second known text is entitled Of the Worldly Lords . It dates from around 1400 and can be found in the Kolmar song manuscript . (Footnote 10) In it, the poet asks about the most important of the secular rulers, the Nine Heroes.

The Dutch literature on the Nine Heroes is significantly more extensive than the German. Dutch poetry found its way to Cologne, where it could also be understood due to the linguistic proximity (and in contrast to the French texts). Since the two German text sources mentioned were only written down around 1400, but the Cologne depiction of the Nine Good Heroes can be dated earlier, it can be assumed that the clients were aware of foreign-language sources. An order without knowledge of the literary sources is highly unlikely, because Longuyon first defined the classic canon of the Nine Heroes with his Les vœux du paon . The author of Leken Spieghel while regretting that Caesar was included in the group of ancient heroes instead of Emperor Augustus, he does not dare to defy Longuyon's established canon and change the group according to his wishes. This makes it clear that Longuyon's canon of the Nine Heroes "has become a literary constant immediately after its appearance."

Footnote 9: See Schroeder: Der Topos der Nine Worthies, 1971, 79.
Footnote 10: Schroeder: The Topos of the Nine Worthies, 1971, 80.
Schroeder, Horst: Der Topos der Nine Worthies in Literatur und bildender Kunst. Göttingen 1971: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht.
Jan van Boendale has a rather long biography in the Netherlandish wikipedia ...
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_van_Boendale
... in which also the "Der Leken Spiegelh" is noted. The automatic translation has this result:
The layman's mirror (ca. 1325-1330)

Fragment from a manuscript of the Lay Mirror. Made in the Netherlands, 1st half of the 15th century. Preserved in Ghent University Library.[1]
About 1325 Jan van Boendale started "Der leken spiegel" and completed it on 6 August 1330. The work can be characterized as an exemplary and moralizing textbook, in which Boendale gathered all the information he thought laymen needed to lead a good life. This extensive book, consisting of 21,818 verses, was commissioned by Rogier van Leefdael and his wife Agnes van Kleef. Today we only have four complete manuscripts and a few fragments.

The first book tells the story from creation to Solomon's reign, focusing on aspects such as the human soul, the human body and a number of moral themes. In response to the story of Adam and Eve, Boendale praises marriage, which he even puts above the celibacy of the priests.
The second book deals mainly with the life of Jesus. Boendale pays special attention to Jesus' childhood, a period that hardly occurs in the Gospels. In this book he also writes about the liturgy and the history of emperors and popes.
Book three mainly deals with moralizing and moralizing themes, for example how a man should treat his wife and raise his children. The best-known chapter in this book is How poets close sullen, the oldest poetics in Dutch.
The fourth and final book is about the future, more specifically about the end of time. For example, the Christians would have to deal with the Antichrist and with fifteen plagues that herald the day of judgment.

In the Middle Ages, encyclopedic works were often given a title in which the word 'mirror' (< Latin speculum) occurs. The authors held up to the reader a 'mirror' of both reality and the ideal to which man should strive. 'Laity' were people who had no knowledge of Latin and therefore had no access to the clergy ('scholarship') contained in Latin sources. Boendale also wanted to make this knowledge available to the laity.
The Wikipedia report is silent about the 9 Worthies. Actually it is probably also difficult to find the passage in an online edition of "Der Leken Spiegelh", there are 5 books to the theme (the 5th book is only a word dictionary) and not all are online available (as far I know).

added later: This looks like comfortable way to research the text, but I've trouble to understand the search system.
https://www.dbnl.org/titels/titel.php?id=boen001derl01
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Collection for 9 Worthies, 9 Helden and neuve preux

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Huck, thanks for this, but these quotes are too general and show nothing about how Dutch sources influenced the Cologne statues. What is needed is where in these works, such as the leken spieghel, the nine worthies are characterized, what is said about them, and in particular whether King Arthur is characterized by a shield or arms with three crowns. That the author regrets that Caesar rather than Augustus was included is not enough.

As far as I can tell, only the editor's introduction and book 1 of Leken Spieghel is online (published in 1844). Searching for terms like "negen" (nine) "helden" (heroes), "waardigen" (worthies), "kronen" (crowns), "drie" (three), "konig" (King), "Arthur" (Arthur), "Caesar" etc., turns up nothing. Karel den Groote and Augustus are mentioned together, but not in the "nine worthies" context. Perhaps the German sources have something better.

Added later: that source https://www.dbnl.org/tekst/boen001mvri01_01/index.php might help if we knew where to look.

Added later (I forgot, earlier, to click "submit" foor this part): i.e. which volume of the book, etc. I see that some of my search terms were not spelled right: e.g. coninghen instead of konigen.
Last edited by mikeh on 08 Nov 2022, 09:16, edited 3 times in total.

Re: Collection for 9 Worthies, 9 Helden and neuve preux

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We don't know, what names are used. "Davijt" is "David" ... such problems are difficult. I think, I will contact the author.
As far I understand it, we had nothing about the voeux du paon between 1310/12 and Arras 1336. And now we have an info about a matter between 1325-30.

From somewhere I saw the opinion, that the text of voeux du paon was not ready, when Thibaut died (1312). The reason to produce the work was the fact, that one German king was murdered in 1308 and another one was chosen, Heinrich VII. And plans could be made in Luxembourg, how to fill the situation.

The 9 Worthies were only a small part of the voeux du paon, the major part of the work was used for a prolongation of the already introduced Alexander topic. The Alexander topic meant crusader ideology, the wish for a successful invasion of Eastern territories ... as Alexander had done that a longer time ago. In 1309 there was the bad situation, that the earlier success of the invasion was finished with Akkon 1291.
The whole project became a catastrophe, when Heinrich VII died (1313). The catastrophe increased with the loss of Jacques de Molay, the French king and the French pope (1414). And 2 new Kings in Germany (1414), who had to clear, which would be the better one, one crowned in Bonn with the help of the Cologne archbishop and the other, the Bavarian, crowned in Aachen with the help of the archbishops of Trier and Mainz.

And then ... famine. ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_of_1315–1317 ... Bad weather in spring 1315.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_II_of_Virneburg ... Cologne (1304-1332), antibishop Trier (1300-1306), one of the victors of the battle of Worringen, crowned Friedrich den Schönen of Habsburg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_of_Aspelt .... Mainz (1306-1320), crowned Ludwig of Bayern
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balduin_von_Luxemburg .... Trier (1307-1354), brother of Heinrich VII, arranged, that the later Luxembourger became a successful dynasty
It was not the time for crusades and other noble virtues of Kings or Emperors. Friedrich der Schöne was captured in 1322 and stayed 3 years in prison.
At March 13 in 1425 the "Trausnitzer Sühne" was agreed upon and in that year the Dutch poet started to write his work. Strange coincidence.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Collection for 9 Worthies, 9 Helden and neuve preux

9
Im Diesseits das Jenseits bereiten
Eschatologie, Laienbildung und Zeitkritik bei den mittelniederländischen Autoren Jan van Boendale, Lodewijk van Velthem und Jan van Leeuwen
by Ulrike Wuttke, Universitätsverlag Göttingen 2016
https://univerlag.uni-goettingen.de/bit ... sAllowed=y

The Leken Spiegelh is interpreted in this text.
I didn't get the impression, that the 9 Worthies are involved. I might err.

***********************

https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/ ... 95.347/pdf
The Nine Worthies are also known as the Neuf Preux (French), Negen Besten (Dutch), Neun Helden (German), Nueve Preciados de la fama (Spanish), Nove Prodi (Italian) and Ni Helte (Danish); cf. Horst Schroeder, Der Topos der Nine Worthies in Literatur und bildender Kunst. Mit 43 Tafeln, Göttingen, 1971, 13. Schroeder’s is the seminal work on the Nine Worthies; Horst Schroeder, »The Nine Worthies. A supplement«, Archiv für das Studium der neueren Sprachen und Literaturen133 (1981), 330–340, is the most important supplement.
https://books.google.de/books/about/Der ... edir_esc=y
Der Topos der Nine Worthies in Literatur und bildender Kunst, by Horst Schroeder, Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht, 1971 - 421 Seiten
Inhalt
Einleitung 13
Les Voeux du Paon 41
Die Verbreitung der Nine Worthies in den Literaturen des Kontinents 67
Zusatzbildungen zum Topos der Nine Worthies 168
Der zehnte Wortly 203
Die zehnte Worthy Woman 216
Die Wappen der Nine Worthies und der Nine Worthy Women 225
Die Wappen der neuf preuses 250
Die Wappen der neun guten Frauen 256
Anmerkungen zu den Wappentabellen 300

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https://thefreelancehistorywriter.com/t ... es/page/2/
Image


Torun /Thorn, where in 1310 an Artushof was founded
"The Nine Worthies of Toruń, Poland, c. 1400. From right to left: King Arthur, David, Joshua and Judas Maccabeus."

"In December 2016, a remarkable discovery was made in one of the burgher houses in the Old Town of Toruń. Toruń is a remarkable city with medieval wall paintings preserved in almost every church and even more exceptionally in burgher houses where numerous secular examples survive. The latest sensational discovery was made by chance, during major repairs in the house at 16 Żeglarska Street. The paintings were created c. 1400 and represent the International Gothic. They depict the Nine Worthies, King Arthur himself among them. Major conservation works were carried out and completed in the early 2017."
Last edited by Huck on 11 Nov 2022, 22:28, edited 2 times in total.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

9 Worthies already in 13th century ?

10
Van neghen den besten ... A Dutch wikipedia article to the 9 Worthies
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_neghen_den_besten
... contains an alternative theory for the origin of the text for the 9 Worthies

automatic translation of the web page
https://nl-m-wikipedia-org.translate.go ... r_pto=wapp
The Nine Besten originate from a Middle Dutch text, described as anonymous until 1997, Van neghen den besten , which was written before 1291 by Jacob van Maerlant according to a hypothesis defended by Wim van Anrooij in a doctoral study. Between stopping his work on the Spiegel Historiael in 1289 and finishing his work on Vandenlanden van oversee in 1291, Maerlant is said to have written Van neghen den best for Jacques de Longuyon's Les voeux du paon . It should be borne in mind that not all historians find this hypothesis equally convincing.
It is a relatively short text of 585 verses. In it, the author lists nine heroes, who can serve as an example for mankind.
English wiki to Jacob von Maerlant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_van_Maerlant
Based on doctoral research (Van Anrooij 1997), it is now thought likely that Jacob was also the author of the hitherto anonymous Van neghen den besten ("On the Nine Worthies"). This would be his last work. It is one of the few works with European distribution whose source text was written in Middle Dutch. The work had a profound and lasting impact on the honor code of the Western European knightly elite.
Netherlandish wikipedia to Jacob van Maerlant
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_van_Maerlant
automatic translation
https://nl-m-wikipedia-org.translate.go ... r_pto=wapp
Van Anrooij's doctoral research revealed that Jacob van Maerlant is also the author of the hitherto anonymous Van neghen den best . This would be his last work. It is one of the few works with European distribution whose source text is written in Middle Dutch. The work has had a far-reaching and long-lasting influence on the code of honor of the Western European chivalric elite.
..... Because Jacob van Maerlant used the vernacular in his works, he contributed a lot to the dissemination of knowledge about all kinds of things. In 1330 the Antwerp poet Jan van Boendale calls him 'father of the Dietsedichtren algader', 'the father of all poets in Dutch'.
Short Version
Van den neghen besten (korte versie)(1893-1897) . short version, published as an anonymous poem
https://www.dbnl.org/tekst/_neg002npau0 ... 1_0001.php

Long Version
Van den neghen besten (lange versie) anoniem – 1460-1470, long version
https://www.dbnl.org/tekst/_neg002npau0 ... 1_0001.php
... has 709 verses
(? possibly based on a 19th century print ?)
the Netherland wiki report wrote ... "It is a relatively short text of 585 verses. In it, the author lists nine heroes, who can serve as an example for mankind."

Long version
1 Eerst, van den drie heydenen. ... 40 lines
41 Ector ....79 lines
120 Alexander .... 80 lines
200 Julius ... 120 lines
320 Volghen de Joden, eerst Josue. .... 40 lines
360 David ... 39 lines
399 Judas Machabeus ... 79 lines
478 Hiernaer volcht van den Kerstinen: Artuer. ... 120 lines
598 Karel .... 40 lines
638 Godefroet (Ende mit 706) .... 68 lines

6x the number of lines is 40, 80 or 120
3x one line is "missing": 39 or 79
Godefroet has an unusual "68"
Totally there are 706, and that is 121 lines more than the not explained "585 verses"

Short version (each hero has 8 lines)
1 Hector
9 Alexander
17 Julius
25 David
33 Josue
41 Josue
49 Aeurtueur
57 Kaerl
65 Godevaert van Bulgoen (Ende mit 72) 72

******************

Added: we had the name "Van Anrooij" earlier at May 22 in 2020 ...
viewtopic.php?p=22169#p22169

automatic translation of a Dutch biography of Maerlant in the year 1998 (before he was suspected to have been active in matters of the Worthies).
https://www.dbnl.org/tekst/maer002maer0 ... 1_0002.php .... original, Editor: Ingrid Biesheuvel
https://www-dbnl-org.translate.goog/tek ... r_pto=wapp
.... it's interesting, that he had a special favour for Gottfried of Bouillion.

Jacob van Maerlant, life and work
His statue is located on the market square of Damme, a town near Bruges in West Flanders. With a thoughtful look, his back to the fifteenth-century town hall, his right hand raised in front of his chest, he looks down at the passers-by. Several bulky books are piled at his feet. Around the market square are cafes and restaurants with melodious, enticing names such as Pallieter and Bij Lamme Goedzak. One of the catering establishments bears the name of the man, whose statue adorns the market. It's called Gasthof Maerlant.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.251376, ... 384!8i8192
When we know which sample texts Jacob van Maerlant had on his desk, and thus have the building blocks for his Middle Dutch work in his hands, we can investigate how the poet processed his sources. By comparing and seeing what he added and what he left out, what he emphasized or, on the contrary, somewhat obscured, we can get a sense of his preferences. When we take a close look at Maerlant's fingers, we discover a number of themes that run like red threads through his oeuvre. A number of these can be explained with a view to the audience for which Maerlant wrote. Others may have to do with his personal preference.
First of all, Jacob van Maerlant shows himself fascinated by royalty in almost all his works. It is already evident in Alexander's minds ; his Spiegel historiael presents the poet as the history of 'all the kings who ever were [lived]'. The chapters on Charlemagne in this last work bear witness to a deep admiration for this 'great' monarch. Other celebrities such as King Arthur and his predecessors and the king's son Hector clearly enjoy Maerlant's sympathy.
Godfried van Bouillon, the great hero of the First Crusade (1096-1099), is linked to a second theme in Maerlant's oeuvre: the Crusades and everything related to them. When the poet speaks of the Muslims who rule the Holy Land in his day, he shows himself particularly militant towards them, but also irreconcilable - and in twentieth-century eyes very intolerant. Van den lande van oversee (1291 ) is the flaming proof, but also in other places Maerlant's words are not tender.
When reading Maerlant's account of the Crusades, but also in a text such as the Revenge of Jerusalem , the extraordinary attention that the poet devotes to describing siege scenes and, above all, his thorough knowledge of the subject is striking. field of military technology and weapons. In this respect too, Maerlant's texts will have been an excellent source of information for his intended audience. In any case, it would have read with interest what the poet had to say about this.
Huck
http://trionfi.com
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