Re: Certame coronario October 1441

31
Look what I got, Mike!
Image
http://www.rosscaldwell.com/alberti/watkinsmarsh.jpg

Both from "Better World Books", HQ in UK it seems, since all prices are in £, and free shipping all over the world, apparently.
https://www.betterworldbooks.com/

David Marsh's translation of Intercenales, "Dinner Pieces", was only £7! Shipped from somewhere in the US, which worried me, but it was tracked.
Renée Neu Watkins' translation of the four books of I libri della famiglia,"The Family in Renaissance Florence," cost £24, and shipped from the UK.

Both are unmarked, Dinner Pieces is ex-library - Concordia College Library, Portland, Oregon - but only borrowed once in its whole history, judging from the card at the back.

Re: Certame coronario October 1441

32
Hmmm. Ross, do you have a date for when Dinner Pieces was checked out? I did have borrowing privileges at Concordia College when I was researching Alberti in relation to the Renaissance concept of hieroglyphs (2012?) and did check that book out from some library, I don't remember which. Good purchases.
Last edited by mikeh on 08 Jun 2023, 00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Re: "Triumph" of Sigismondo Malatesta in Florence in 1448?

33
Ross Caldwell wrote: 01 Jun 2023, 18:50 after the triumph he received in Florence in 1448.
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medaglia_ ... latestiano

I had never heard of Sigismondo receiving a triumph before. Giusto Giusti doesn't mention it (Newbigin pages 96-99 deal with 1448). Condottieridiventura doesn't mention it.

Sigismondo's own Italian wikipedia page gives a little more detail -
...
In need of help, the Florentines finally broke their mistrust and on 10 December 1447 hired Malatesta alongside the militia of Federico da Montefeltro. The war was swiftly waged, securing the victory of Piombino on 15 July 1448....

There's the “triumph” again, but it adds Basinio da Parma, who turns out to have been Sigismondo's court poet after 1449.
...

So, it seems that the next step is to go to Basinio da Parma's works...

I thought we'd already discussed this before, or perhaps I'd read it in the secondary literature (source is not coming to me), but the triumph only existed in the imagination of Malatesta's court. Malatesta identified so strongly with Scipio - and Petrarch's trionfi so strongly associated with that general - that a triumph was practically demanded, even if literary. Malatesta also journeys to the Isles of the Blessed, where he meets with ancient heroes in the Hesperis...that also did not happen.

Might be pointed out somewhere in this work, which is wide-ranging: Margolis, Oren Jason. The Politics of Culture in Quattrocento Europe: René of Anjou in Italy. United Kingdom: Oxford University Press, 2016.

The only other contemporary reference to the 1448 triumph that I can find is, tellingly enough, in yet another of Malatesta’s literary courtiers, Roberto Valturio, whose treatise De re militari (1446-55?), apparently mentions it; see: Miller, Anthony. Roman Triumphs and Early Modern English Culture. United Kingdom: Palgrave Macmillan UK, 2001: 40. Available in the Google books scan: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Ro ... =en&gbpv=1

Re: Certame coronario October 1441

34
mikeh wrote: 07 Jun 2023, 23:22 Hmmm. Ross, do you have a date for when Dinner Pieces was checked out? I did have borrowing privileges at Concordia College when I was researching Alberti in relation to the Renaissance concept of hieroglyphs (2012?) and did check that book out from some library, I don't remember which. Good purchases.
Here's all the information I can glean -
Image
http://www.rosscaldwell.com/albertimarshlibrary.jpg

I guess that the final "8" means 2008, so it's too early to be the copy you borrowed.

Re: "Triumph" of Sigismondo Malatesta in Florence in 1448?

35
Phaeded wrote: 07 Jun 2023, 23:23
Ross Caldwell wrote: 01 Jun 2023, 18:50 after the triumph he received in Florence in 1448.
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medaglia_ ... latestiano

I had never heard of Sigismondo receiving a triumph before. Giusto Giusti doesn't mention it (Newbigin pages 96-99 deal with 1448). Condottieridiventura doesn't mention it.

Sigismondo's own Italian wikipedia page gives a little more detail -
...
In need of help, the Florentines finally broke their mistrust and on 10 December 1447 hired Malatesta alongside the militia of Federico da Montefeltro. The war was swiftly waged, securing the victory of Piombino on 15 July 1448....

There's the “triumph” again, but it adds Basinio da Parma, who turns out to have been Sigismondo's court poet after 1449.
...

So, it seems that the next step is to go to Basinio da Parma's works...

I thought we'd already discussed this before, or perhaps I'd read it in the secondary literature (source is not coming to me), but the triumph only existed in the imagination of Malatesta's court. Malatesta identified so strongly with Scipio - and Petrarch's trionfi so strongly associated with that general - that a triumph was practically demanded, even if literary. Malatesta also journeys to the Isles of the Blessed, where he meets with ancient heroes in the Hesperis...that also did not happen.

Might be pointed out somewhere in this work, which is wide-ranging: Margolis, Oren Jason. The Politics of Culture in Quattrocento Europe: René of Anjou in Italy. United Kingdom: Oxford University Press, 2016.

The only other contemporary reference to the 1448 triumph that I can find is, tellingly enough, in yet another of Malatesta’s literary courtiers, Roberto Valturio, whose treatise De re militari (1446-55?), apparently mentions it; see: Miller, Anthony. Roman Triumphs and Early Modern English Culture. United Kingdom: Palgrave Macmillan UK, 2001: 40. Available in the Google books scan: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Ro ... =en&gbpv=1
Thanks for those references. I've got both books, and Stacey's as well, who quotes more of the Giannozzo Manetti speech. This was my suspicion too, that no such real triumph took place in Florence. From Miller's translations of the relevant parts of Valturio, it's clear that he portrayed the march from Piombino to ... Florence? ... as a triumphal parade, lined with cheering citizens of the no-longer-endangered cities, showered with trophies, etc. My confusion arose because I had never encountered such a real triumph in Florence in 1448, for Sigismondo or anybody, and that the Italian wikipedia stated it bluntly as the explanation for why Sigismondo has the laurel crown in one of Matteo de' Pasti's medals for him. The laurel crown is clearly another "literary", or, rather, iconographic, triumph (like Federico da Montefeltro's).

Your sources sent me down a little research excursion which I append:
Margolis quotes Manetti quoting Cicero quoting Caesar quoting Euripides in Latin

Margolis page 91: “If justice must be violated, it must be violated for the sake of regnum.” Manetti, Oratio ad Venetos, “Si violandum est ius, regni gratia violandum est." (the quote continues, not in Margolis: "Aliis in rebus pietatem colas.”)

Stacey, Roman monarchy page 188, gives Manetti's source as Cicero, De officiis I.8.26 and III.21.82

Cicero's two references from Walter Miller's translation in the Loeb edition, vol. XXI, 1913,
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/R ... /home.html

“The great majority of people, however, when they fall a prey to ambition for either military or civil authority, are carried away by it so completely that they quite lose sight of the claims of justice. For Ennius says:
"There is no fellow­ship inviolate,
No faith is kept, when kingship is concerned;"
“But the father-in‑law himself used to have continually upon his lips the Greek verses from the Phoenissae, which I will reproduce as well as I can — awkwardly, it may be, but still so that the meaning can be understood:
"If wrong may e'er be right, for a throne's sake
Were wrong most right:— be God in all else feared!"​12

12 From A. S. Way's translation
Way's translation of what though? Seneca also wrote a play called Phoenissae, but that is in Latin, not Greek. Oh, it's Euripides.

Dionysius of Halicarnassus is the first that comes up with the original quote, in the Loeb translation of the Classical Antiquities, IV, 29, 7, note 61 -
https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/ ... tml#note61

61. Euripides, Phoen. 524 f.: εἴπερ γὰρ ἀδικεῖν χρή, τυραννίδος πέρὶ κάλλιστον ἀδικεῖν, τἆλλαδ’ εὐσεβεῖν χρεών — "If wrong e'er be right, for a throne's sake Were wrong most right: — be God in all else feared." — Way in L. C. L. These lines, according to Cicero (de Off. III.21), were often quoted by Caesar.

That is enough precision for now.

Re: Certame coronario October 1441

36
PROTESTA
Text and ChatGPT translation

Source:
https://it.wikisource.org/wiki/Protesta
Text copied from Lucia Bertolini, ed.,De vera amicitia : i testi del primo Certame coronario, Modena, Panini, 1993, pp. 501-514.

La plebe et i vulgari fiorentini vi saluta come huomini, molto generosissimi segretarii appostolici. Se i vostri studii sono, qual voi gli affermate, studii d'umanità, e sempre fu ofizio d'umanità porgersi facile e trattabile verso qualunque da lui chieggia esser fatto più costumato e più emendato in ogni sua vita, diteci: saremo noi da biasimare, se in queste lettere non peritamo domandarvi di cose da volerle sapere, quali non da altri meglio si possono che da voi intendere?

Diteci: chi propuose questo certame coronario, in nel quale voi fusti constituiti iudici già più e più mesi, non comunicò egli (cioè messer Batista degli Alberti) con voi il suo pensiero, e parsevi che fosse cosa utile alla nostra gioventù, cosa degna alla patria nostra, cosa ancora lodata presso a tutte le genti? Se direte: «Non ci parse né degna, né lodata», guardate non siate da essere reputati levissimi presso di chi si maravigliassi onde fusse che tanto, domandati, allora la lodavate, se dentro a' vostri animi altro sentavate. E forse sarebbe chi vi giudicherebbe né buoni cittadini, né interi huomini, dove non proibisti in tempo quello che vedevi et per vostre divina sapienza conoscevi essere dannoso. Et noi certo non possiano credere vi paresse cosa da nolla volere, poiché 'nsino quando in que' prossimi dì doveano pronunziare e' certatori, voi, chiamati da chi con voi si consigliò, l'approvasti, et per vostro consiglio in publico editto, col precone e insigni publichi, si notificò al popolo. Et se a voi quanto stimiamo pur parse cosa da 'seguirla, diteci: per che cagione fu tra voi chi prima tanto in ogni modo la perturbasse, et poi tanto la vituperasse, quando il certame, più che niuno sperava, era riuscito et gratissimo al popolo e in sé degnissimo? Diteci: che cagione mosse alcuno di voi a ire disuadendo e' concertatori e amonendogli, non s'afaticassero in quello che voi e lodasti et nulla potete biasimare? Fue di questo (quello che alcuni maledici disono) cagione la 'nvidia che vi dolesse vedere in la terra nostra cittadini quali, simili a' suoi maggiori, ben meritando della sua patria curassero la fama, dignità et ben publico? O fu pure (come alcuni credono), che, udendo voi essere alcuni studiosi parati a producere in mezzo commedia, e forse tragedie, voi diliberasti proibire questa ottima principiata consuetudine, per quale la terra nostra molto ne fosse onestata, e questo solo però che voi conoscevi che tacendo eravate vituperati, e dicendo eravate scorti? O fu pure (come alcuni di voi referisce) cagione di questo non volere che simile certame si 'seguisse, ché non vi degnavate in questo modo venire al giudicio di noi huomini plebei et vulgari?

Diteci: se in voi sta quanto noi stimiamo prudenzia et erudizione, dorrav'egli forse essere conosciuti da qualunque minimo plebeo? se vi conoscete da non poter sattisfare alle expettazioni nostre et rendervi pari alla oppinione quale abbiamo di voi come d'omini eruditissimi, onde viene che voi giudicate fanciulli e pazzi, che non solo a noi vulgari, ma et a tutti e' senatori patritii et a voi ancora satisfece, quando fra voi più che uno e un altro publicò et affermò essere tra ' certatori chi fosse da non posporlo a' primi ottimi passati poeti toscani? Se questo così vi parse, non può parervi se non ingiuria testé appellargli fanciulli e pazzi; se non vi parea da tanto lodarli, come può a noi parere questa vostra lauldazione se non levità e assentazione servile?

Voi quanto que' poeti certatori fussero a noi grati et a tutti e' cittadini accetti lo potesti comprendere el dì del certame, se voi stesti con buona modestia attenti, sì per la moltitudine qual vi concorse, sì per la actenzione qual servorono, sì per voce e commendazione qual sino a testé ne fa il popolo, sì per lo studio di ciascuno qual cerca d'avere apresso di sé scritti tutti e' detti di qualunque concertatore, e per imparare da loro quello forse non sapevano, e per rendere questo premio alle vigilie loro, commendando i lor nomi a posterità, che infra dieci dì già sono più che dieci volte venti copie trascritte di tutto il certame, e per tutta Ytalia volano a tutti i principi, et chieste da tutti i litterati, lodate da tutti i buoni. Solo tra voi sentiamo essere chi vitupera questa principiata nostra laude, e dice essere cosa indegna che uno vulgare con uno nobilissimo literatissimo contenda, e per questo in prima doversi vietare questi certami. Nollo crediamo che tra alcuni di voi, huomini dottissimi, sia tanta ineptia, sendo in voi questo comune detto che tutti siamo da Giove, e tutti comperiamo il sale tanto l'uno quant'e l'altro; essendo comune sentenzia di tutti e' prudenti che la virtù, non la fortuna, fia quella che noi nobilita, e così il vizio fa ignominioso in cui e' sia. E se pur fusse chi perseverasse vituperandolo, il domanderemo se questo fu usato costume sempre presso agli antichi, quali voi tanto proponete et aprovate in ogni fatto e detto, che nulla altro può non dispiacervi se non quanto e' sente dell'antico. E domanderemo se in que' tempi si trovarono huomini generosi, huomini dotti, et vuomini che avessono l'orecchie delicatissime pari a voi. Et domanderemo se, quando Plauto venia in scena tutto polveroso e colle mani callose, que' principi latini lo fastidiavano, se a que' patricii stomacava l'odore del pristino in quale quel poeta se exercitava per pascersi. Et se sarà in la terra nostra chi con gesti gravissimi risponda sé essere simili a quelli censori e moderatori delle legge e d'ogni relegione, noi con ogni reverenza pregherremo ci dica qual prestanza lo faccia, in quello di che e' fa professione, dissimile a que' maggiori tanto da sé lodati. E diremo: qual tuo studio d'umanità, o huomo, t'insegna tanto fastidire chi si dia alle virtù, alle cose grate a' suoi cittadini, alle quali cose noi altri, pure vuomini come voi, diventiamo più dotti e più atti a ben vivere? Quanti sono fra noi, per opera di questi concertatori, che ora sanno che prima non sapevano che cosa sia amicizia? quanti saranno fra ' nostri nipoti e posteri quinci fatti in questo più dotti? E diteci, priegovi, o huomini excellentissimi: duolv'egli che noi ora intendiamo questa parte di filosofia, la quale non intendavamo? Se risponderete: «Duolci», vi reputeremo invidiosi e pessimi cittadini; se risponderete: «A noi piace», domanderemo: «Perché vietasti voi tanta nostra utilità e vostro piacere?» Et chi non odiasse il fastidio di chi pure affermasse non esser lecito a un prebeo concorrere a questi certami? Ditemi: s'egli è in quel certame astile pericolosissimo licito a qualunque infimo acorrere in mezzo, e certando percuotere, aterrare e fugare di vita qual vuoi primario e nobilissimo contrastatore, sarae vietato in simile luogo publico a noi altri comparire dove voi dotti convenisti? saracci proibito il favellare quando altrove sia licito uccidere? saracci egli interdetto mostrare il nostro ingegno, dove sieno allettati con premio tutti gl'ingegnosi? ché direte brutta esser cosa che uno imperito venga in mezzo ridicolo della scena, se vedesti non rarissimo armato chi venne per certare e partissi empiuto l'elmo della cena passata? Fu però che 'l certame astile sia per questo da vituperallo? Et fra voi si dice che tanto premio, degno di coronare e' sommi et ottimi poeti, troppo sarebbe indegno premio a noi vulgari. Diteci: se lo meritasse, non faresti voi ingiuria a nollo contribuire? se nollo meritasse, derestigliel voi? Quale inetto stimasse sé essere coronato in quel certame astile, perché e' superò chi in cosa niuna fu degno d'amirazione? Così in questo certame coronario: come non era non licito a qualunque convenirvi, così era degno premiare chi superasse e' migliori; né sappiamo come in questo e' dotti et litterati possino essere certando inferiori a chi sia imperito e vulgare, se in queste vostre lettere sta tanta forza ad esornare ogni ingegno. E più, se Orfeo, Museo, Omero, Virgilio, Ovidio, Stazio, et ancora el vostro Appolline fusse in questa età e trovassero quello poeta concertatore qual vinse coronato, da che parte biasimerebbono essi chi l'avesse coronato? Se dicessero: «Questa, sì perch'ell'è corona, e perch'ell'è d'alloro, si disdice»; qui se voi, huomini facondissimi, fussi elingui et muti, noi vulgari loro per voi risponderemo: «E per che cagione fia la corona proprio vostro insigne, quale sia comune insieme alle meretrici? Se l'alloro fa voi essere poeti, ancora fieno le salsicce poetesse!» Fu costui coronato perché fra ' poeti fu in quel certame suppremo, et assai fu ottimo chi superò e' buoni; et voi, in questo, inferiori fusti agl'infimi e pessimi poeti tacendo. Già che, se chi scrive si chiama scrittore, e chi canta cantatore, et chi ara aratore, chi fa poemi fia non poeta più che chi tacendo, o solo biasimando gli altri, voglia essere reputato poeta e principe de' poeti? Ma fue mai che corona donata da qual si sia magistrato o popolo fosse altro che o segno di vittoria o premio alle fatiche? Donavansi dopo al conflitto a qual vuoi huomo militare, a' servi, secondo e' loro meriti, corone civica, murale, castrense, navale et simili, e d'ariento, e d'oro, e gemmate, secondo parea alla liberalità di chi distribuiva e' premii. Simile a' poeti. Et a qualunque certame palestrico era la corona segno di vittoria insieme e premio delle fatiche. Et chi dicesse una e un'altra libra d'argento troppo essere premio alle fatiche di qualunque studioso? Qual di costoro certatori, mentre che si exercitò in questo certame, non pospose ogni sua privata cura e domestica faccenda? Qual di loro non expuose più et più vigilie in elimare e esornare suo poemi? Se in voi sono ingegni divini, e potete estempore e subito produrre ottimi vostri poemi, meritate biasimo ché non convenisti dove senza dificultà potavate aonestare simile principiata consuetudine in la patria nostra, qual da voi era stata troppo commendata. Se conoscesti non si potea, senza molta e molta fatica, produrre in mezzo opera d'ingegno quale meriti in tanta conzione di huomini prestantissimi (quale concorse a questo spettaculo) essere ascoltata, sarà, crediamo, ingiuria la vostra, se alle summe fatiche di questi studiosi così negarete uno meno che mediocre premio. E diteci: a cavagli corridori si darà premio più libbre d'oro: a questi huomini onestissimi non si retribuiranno poche once d'argento? E se tanto in voi può la consuetudine, che a una bestia insensata si conceda premio pari a una ricchezza d'uno onesto cittadino, dovete non vietare questa ordita consuetudine alla patria vostra e a' vostri studiosi cittadini, ché a chi se esercita in virtù, pari si referisca premio douto a sua industria. Et se pure affermassi che veruno meritava fra questi concertatori tanto segno di prestantissima lode et che tutte furono cose puerili, non ardiremo non assentirvi et aquiescere al vostro iudizio, huomini gravissimi; ma dorremoci se forse voi volessi da questa nostra età quello non volsero quelli antichi dalla loro. Prima che la lingua latina fosse, quanto ella poi fu, culta, essi stettono contenti a que' primi poeti quali essi aveano forse ingegnosi, ma con poca arte. Così i poeti odierni potranno dirvi: «E noi per che cagione non vi satisfacciamo, faccendo quanto a noi fra studio e dottrina?» Se a voi pare meglio poter dire che quegli che certano, ché non exponete voi in mezzo vostra dottrina et perizia? Spregiate voi el premio qual voi affermate esser troppo grande e degno di coronare chi sia simile a voi eruditissimo? Fastidiav'egli favellare quella lingua qual favellorono e' vostri padri e avoli? Quali, se furono nobilissimi, quale aroganza sarà questa di chi, vituperando noi ch'abbiamo lingua simile a loro, vituperi insieme in questo ancora loro? se furono forse ignobili, chi sarà di voi da udirlo, quando e' dica non poter patire d'essere veduto in ceto fra ' plebei? Forse direte: «La nobilità nostra di noi litterati sta in cosa stabile, in la virtù e cognizione di molte ottime cose». Lodianvi et assentianvi così essere. Ma diteci: quale infortunio sarae a' mortali la povertà, se altri, niuno che solo e' fortunati. [..........]

ChatGPT translation 21/06/2023, unaltered

"The plebeians and the common Florentines greet you as gentlemen, very generous apostolic secretaries. If your studies are, as you affirm, studies of humanity, it has always been the duty of humanity to be approachable and accommodating towards anyone who seeks to be more civilized and improved in their every aspect of life. Tell us, will it be our fault if in these letters we dare not ask you about matters we wish to know, matters that can be understood better by no one else but you?

"Tell us: who proposed this coronary contest, in which you were appointed judges many months ago, did he (namely Messer Batista degli Alberti) not communicate his thoughts to you, and did it not seem to you that it was beneficial for our youth, worthy for our homeland, and praised by all peoples? If you say, "It did not seem worthy or praised to us," be careful not to be considered frivolous by those who wonder why you praised it so much when asked, if you felt something different in your hearts. And perhaps there would be those who would not judge you as good citizens or upright individuals, if you did not prohibit in due time what you saw and, through your divine wisdom, knew to be harmful. And we certainly cannot believe that you considered it something undesirable, since until those recent days when the contestants were to be judged, you, called by those with whom you consulted, approved it, and through your advice, it was proclaimed publicly with a herald and prominent public figures, and announced to the people. And if what we value so highly seemed worthy to you as well, tell us: what reason led some among you to disturb it so much in every way at first and then to criticize it so strongly, when the contest, more successful than anyone expected, turned out to be most pleasing to the people and highly commendable in itself?

"Tell us: what reason moved any of you to dissuade the organizers and warn them not to exert themselves in what you had praised and had nothing to blame? Was it because (as some maliciously say) you were envious and did not want to see citizens in our land who, like their ancestors, by deserving well of their homeland, cared for their reputation, dignity, and the public good? Or was it perhaps (as some believe) that upon hearing that some scholars were ready to present plays, and perhaps even tragedies, in public, you decided to prohibit this excellent established custom, through which our land would be greatly honored, simply because you knew that you would be criticized if you remained silent and mocked if you spoke out? Or was it perhaps (as some of you report) the reason for not wanting such a contest to take place, because you did not deign to subject yourselves to the judgment of us common and ordinary men in this manner?

"Tell us: if in you lies as much prudence and erudition as we esteem, should it perhaps be known by any common plebeian? If you know yourselves well enough to satisfy our expectations and to make yourselves equal to the opinion we have of you as highly learned men, then why do you judge us as naive and foolish, not only us commoners but also all the senatorial patricians and even yourselves, when among you more than one has published and asserted that there are disputants who should not be ranked below the greatest past Tuscan poets? If you perceived it in this way, it can only be an insult to call them children and fools; if you did not consider them worthy of such praise, then how can we consider your praise anything other than levity and servile flattery?
You could understand how much those competing poets were appreciated by us and accepted by all the citizens on the day of the contest, if you were attentively present with good modesty, both due to the multitude that gathered and the attention they received, as well as the voice and commendation that the people have given until now, and due to the study of each one who seeks to have all the words of any contestant written down, to learn from them what they perhaps did not know, and to pay tribute to their vigilance by praising their names for posterity. Within ten days, there are already more than ten times twenty copies transcribed of the entire contest, and they fly throughout Italy to all the princes, requested by all the literati, praised by all the good people. Only among you do we hear someone criticizing this beginning of our praise and saying that it is unworthy for a commoner to contend with an extremely noble and literary person, and for this reason, these contests should be forbidden from the beginning. We do not believe that among some of you, very learned men, there is such ineptitude, considering that you commonly say that we are all from Jupiter and we all buy salt for the same price. It is a common belief among the wise that virtue, not fortune, is what makes us noble, and likewise, vice brings disgrace to whoever possesses it. And even if there were someone who persisted in criticizing it, we will ask whether this was the custom among the ancients, whom you propose and approve of in every deed and word, disliking nothing except what deviates from the ancient ways. And we will ask whether in those times there were noble men, learned men, and men with ears as delicate as yours. And we will ask if, when Plautus appeared on stage covered in dust and with calloused hands, those Latin nobles were disgusted, if the scent of the original conditions in which that poet worked bothered those patricians. And if there is someone among us who, with the gravest gestures, claims to be similar to those censors and moderators of the law and every religion, we will respectfully ask them to tell us in what field they excel, different from those esteemed ancestors. And we shall say: what study of humanity, O man, teaches you to annoy so much those who devote themselves to virtues, to things pleasing to their fellow citizens, to which things we, also men like you, become wiser and more capable of living well? How many among us, through the work of these planners, now know what friendship is, who didn't know before? How many among our descendants and posterity will be made wiser by this?

"And tell us, we pray, O most excellent men: where is it that we now understand this part of philosophy that we did not understand before? If you answer, "We are sorry," we will consider you envious and wicked citizens; if you answer, "We like it," we will ask, "Why did you forbid so much of our usefulness and your pleasure?" And who would not hate the annoyance of someone who also affirms that it is not allowed for a commoner to participate in these competitions? Tell me: if it is allowed in that extremely dangerous competition for anyone lowly to come in and, competing, strike, terrify, and drive away from life any primary and noble opponent, will it be forbidden for us to appear in a similar public place where you learned scholars have gathered? Will it be forbidden for us to speak when elsewhere it is allowed to kill? Will it be forbidden for us to show our intelligence, where all the ingenious are enticed with rewards? For what will you say is an ugly thing for an unskilled person to come in the middle, ridiculed on the stage, if you have seen, not rarely, an armed man who came to compete and left with the helmet of the past dinner empty? Was it therefore that this extremely dangerous competition is so disgraceful? And among you it is said that such a reward, worthy of crowning the highest and best poets, would be too unworthy a reward for us commoners. Tell us: if he deserved it, wouldn't you insult him by not contributing? If he didn't deserve it, wouldn't you take it away from him? What incapable person would consider themselves worthy of being crowned in that ruthless contest, surpassing those who were unworthy of admiration? Just as in this contest of crowning, just as it was not permissible for anyone to participate, it was worthy to reward those who surpassed the best. And we don't understand how in this competition, the learned and literate could be inferior to the ignorant and common, if in your letters there is such power to embellish every mind. Furthermore, if Orpheus, Musaeus, Homer, Virgil, Ovid, Statius, and even your Apollo were in this age and found the poet who won the crown, which side would they criticize for crowning him? If they were to say, "This one, yes because it's a crown, and because it's made of laurel, it is inappropriate"; here, if you, most eloquent men, were mute and silent, we, the common people, would respond on your behalf: "And for what reason is the crown specifically your emblem, which is also common to prostitutes? If laurel makes you poets, then sausages will also be poetesses!" He was crowned because among the poets he was supreme in that contest, and many were excellent who surpassed the good ones. And you, in this regard, were inferior to the lowest and worst poets by remaining silent. Indeed, if someone who writes calls himself a writer, and someone who sings is called a singer, and someone who plows is called a plowman, then can someone who composes poems not be called a poet more than someone who, by remaining silent or only criticizing others, wants to be considered a poet and prince of poets? But has a crown ever been anything other than a symbol of victory or a reward for effort, bestowed by any magistrate or people? They were given after the conflict to any soldier, to slaves, according to their merits: civic, mural, military, naval crowns, and others, made of silver, gold, and adorned with gems, according to the generosity of the distributor of the rewards. The same goes for poets. And in any athletic contest, the crown was a symbol of victory and a reward for the effort. And who would say that two pounds of silver is too much reward for the effort of any scholar? Which of these competitors, while exercising in this contest, did not set aside all their private concerns and domestic affairs? Which of them did not spend countless nights refining and embellishing their poems? If you possess divine intellects and can spontaneously produce excellent poems, then you deserve criticism for not attending where you could easily dignify such a well-established tradition in our homeland, which had been highly praised by you. If you realize that it was not possible, without much and great effort, to produce a work of genius worthy of such a gathering of the most distinguished men (who came together for this spectacle) to be heard, then we believe it would be an insult if you were to deny these diligent scholars a reward that is less than mediocre.
"And tell us: will a greater reward of gold pounds be given to horse racers? Will these very honest men be rewarded with only a few ounces of silver? And if custom has such power over you that an unthinking beast is granted a reward equal to the wealth of an honest citizen, you should not deny this established custom to your homeland and to your learned citizens, so that those who practice virtue may receive a reward commensurate with their industry. And even if I were to assert that none of these participants deserved such a mark of the highest praise and that it was all childish, we would not dare to disagree and acquiesce to your judgment, esteemed men; but we would mourn if perhaps you desired from our age what the ancients did not desire from theirs. Before the Latin language became as cultivated as it later was, they were content with those early poets, who may have been ingenious but lacked much art. In the same way, today's poets can say to you, "And for what reason are we not satisfying you, doing all that we can in terms of study and learning?" If it seems better to you, can you say that those who sing are inferior, without exposing your own knowledge and expertise among them? Do you despise the reward that you claim to be too great and worthy of crowning someone as erudite as yourselves? Was it tiresome to speak the language that your fathers and ancestors spoke? If they were noble, what arrogance is it for those who, while reproaching us for having a language similar to theirs, reproach them at the same time? If they were perhaps ignoble, who among you will listen when it is said that they cannot bear to be seen mingling with the common people? Perhaps you will say, "Our nobility as scholars lies in something stable, in the virtue and knowledge of many excellent things." They praise you and agree that this is so. But tell us: what misfortune will poverty be to mortals if no one is fortunate but the fortunate alone? [..........]"

Re: Certame coronario October 1441

37
I wondered how ChatGPT would have dealt with the theme of Friendship for the Certame Coronario.

First I wanted to test it on translating poetry, with an Alberti sonnet already translated into English by an Italian speaker:

Io vidi già seder nell'arme irato
uomo furioso palido e tremare;
e gli occhi vidi spesso lacrimare
per troppo caldo che al cor è nato.
E vidi amante troppo adolorato
poter né lagrimar né sospirare,
né raro vidi chi né pur gustare
puote alcun cibo ov'è troppo affamato.
E vela vidi volar sopra l'onde,
qual troppo vento la sommerse e affisse;
e veltro vidi, a cui par l'aura ceda,
per troppo esser veloce, perder preda.
Cosí tal forza in noi natura immise,
a cui troppo voler mal corrisponde.

Translation of Rinaldina Russell, Sonnet. The Very Rich and Varied World of the Italian Sonnet (Archway Publishing, 2017), pp. 166-167.

Once I saw an impetuous man, ready
to fight, turn pale and tremble; and I saw
his eyes weep profusely, for too intense
a passion was swelling in his heart.
And I saw a very distraught lover
who could neither weep nor sigh; and I saw,
not rarely, some people unable to partake
of nourishment, for they were too famished.
I furthermore saw a sail flying over the waves
get flooded and be drowned by strong winds;
and I saw a hound, swifter than any breeze,
lose its prey, for it ran at too great a speed.
Such strength Nature has placed in us
that is unable to respond to too strong a will.

ChatGPT chat 21/06/2023

Ross - "Translate the following Italian into English:

"Io già vidi seder nell'arme irato
uomo furioso palido e tremare;
e gli occhi vidi spesso lacrimare
per troppo caldo che al cor è nato.
E vidi amante troppo adolorato
poter né lagrimar né sospirare,
né raro vidi chi né pur gustare
puote alcun cibo ov'è troppo affamato.
E vela vidi volar sopra l'onde,
qual troppo vento la sommerse e affisse;
e veltro vidi, a cui par l'aura ceda,
per troppo esser veloce, perder preda.
Cosí tal forza in noi natura immise,
a cui troppo voler mal corrisponde."

ChatGPT -
I have already seen an angry man sitting in armor,
furious, pale, and trembling;
and I have seen his eyes often filled with tears
from the excessive heat that was born in his heart.
And I have seen a lover too afflicted
unable to shed tears or sigh,
and rarely have I seen anyone unable
to taste any food when excessively hungry.
And I have seen a sail flying over the waves,
overwhelmed and fixed by too much wind;
and I have seen a greyhound, to whom the breeze surrenders,
lose its prey due to being too swift.
Thus, nature instilled such force in us,
to which excessive desire does not correspond well.
Ross - “Leon Battista Alberti wrote this poem. Do you know the approximate date at which he wrote it?”

ChatGPT -
“Leon Battista Alberti wrote the poem you provided, titled "Sonnet XLV," during the Italian Renaissance. The exact date of its composition is uncertain, but Alberti lived from 1404 to 1472, so it can be placed within that timeframe."
Ross - “Translate the Italian into English: "Io vidi già seder nell'arme irato uomo furioso palido e tremare”

ChatGPT -
"I have already seen an angry man seated in armor, a furious man, pale and trembling."
Ross - “The two translations I have of this poem translate "Io vidi già" or "Io già vidi" as "Once I saw... " or "One day I saw..." Why do you translate it "I have already seen"?

ChatGPT -
“You are correct, and I apologize for the confusion. The phrase "Io vidi già" or "Io già vidi" can indeed be translated as "Once I saw..." or "One day I saw..." These translations capture the sense of a specific past event. "I have already seen" is a slightly different translation that emphasizes the completion of the action in the past. Both translations convey the same general meaning, and "Once I saw..." or "One day I saw..." may be more appropriate in this context to capture the poetic tone and convey the intended imagery.”
Ross - “Write a sonnet in the style of Petrarch, in Italian and English, on the subject of the spiritual value of friendship.”

ChatGPT (instantly, of course) -
Italian:

Onde eterni fiamme in petto accese
Che ardent fanno il mio fervente core,
Vedovi amico, mio dolce tesoro,
Scintilla viva che l'anima intese.

La vostra amicizia, fonte d'armonia,
Risplende nel mio cammino solitario,
Come stella che illumina il notturno vario,
Guidando con amore la mia via.

Né lontananza, né tempo né età,
Possano mai spegnere questo fuoco,
Che con forza inestimabile cresce.

Eterna luce, sostenete il mio cuore,
Che nell'amicizia trova il suo locus,
Tesoro prezioso, di valore incresce.

English:

From whence eternal flames within me rise,
Igniting ardor in my fervent core,
O friend, my sweet treasure I adore,
A spark that makes my soul truly wise.

Your friendship, a source of harmony's delight,
Shines on my solitary path so clear,
Like a star that pierces through the dark of night,
Guiding with love and care, removing fear.

No distance, time, nor age shall ever be,
Able to quench this fire burning bright,
That grows with a force unmeasured, free.

Eternal light, sustain my heart's delight,
For in friendship it finds its sacred site,
A precious treasure, increasing in its might.
Ross - “Translate the first poem of this chat from Italian into English so that the English follows the same rhyme scheme.”

ChatGPT -
I already saw a furious man's despair,
Seated in armor, trembling and pale.
And tears oft flowed from his eyes so rare,
From the fiery heat within his heart's veil.

And I beheld a lover, agonized,
Unable to weep or even sigh,
Rarely tasting a morsel to appease,
Starving for love, his hunger awry.

A sail I saw, o'er the waves it soared,
Engulfed and fixed by winds that are vast.
And a greyhound swift, whom the breeze ignored,
Lost its prey, too fleet to capture it fast.

Such force in us Nature did infuse,
Whose desires exceed what we can choose.

Clearly everything depends on the commands and suggestions you give it. Turning Alberti's sonnet into English rhyme made it much more creative.
cron