"Lampros Pal kai Pel, III, 353" is Spyridos Lampros, Παλαιολόγεια και πελοποννησιακά, Athens, 1926. http://diogeneia.library.upatras.gr/apa ... 084%2C3111
This is obviously the Byzantine side reporting. I'll get the page, for whatever it is worth.
Re: What are the documents for Marziano's dates?
442It is in fact from Milan on 3 May, John Palaeologus to the doge of Venice, Francesco Foscari. And in Latin, so easier for us.
http://www.rosscaldwell.com/marzianotex ... IIp353.jpg
He must have stayed in Milan overnight, and not Pavia, because on the next page there is a letter to the legate and cardinal of Bologna (not named) on 4 May.
http://www.rosscaldwell.com/marzianotex ... IIp354.jpg
It seems implausible that he would go to Pavia, then to Milan again. Perhaps the prepared room was for the night of the 4th, not the 3rd.
http://www.rosscaldwell.com/marzianotex ... IIp353.jpg
He must have stayed in Milan overnight, and not Pavia, because on the next page there is a letter to the legate and cardinal of Bologna (not named) on 4 May.
http://www.rosscaldwell.com/marzianotex ... IIp354.jpg
It seems implausible that he would go to Pavia, then to Milan again. Perhaps the prepared room was for the night of the 4th, not the 3rd.
Re: What are the documents for Marziano's dates?
443Setton says he left Milan for Hungary directly, and he was still in Milan on 4 May, so it does not seem possible that he went to Pavia on 3 or 4 May. Unless he went to Pavia to get to the Po to go back to Venice and thence to Hungary. ?
Re: What are the documents for Marziano's dates?
444Gill, Council of Florence, p. 38-39
https://books.google.de/books?id=8RE9AA ... ce&f=false
According Gill he is in Hungary in August 1424 ... rather late. A lot of things are possible between May 3 or 4 and August.
https://books.google.de/books?id=8RE9AA ... ce&f=false
According Gill he is in Hungary in August 1424 ... rather late. A lot of things are possible between May 3 or 4 and August.
Huck
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Re: What are the documents for Marziano's dates?
445I was just going to post Gill as well. He seems to sum up the extent of what is known about the emperor's itinerary in Italy in 1424.
Re: What are the documents for Marziano's dates?
446
Totis in Hungary ... about 1600
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_(Ungarn)
... relative close to Vienna.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_(Ungarn)
... relative close to Vienna.
Huck
http://trionfi.com
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Re: What are the documents for Marziano's dates?
447Here is Sabbadini 1931 cited by Gill for the date of 9 February in Milan. I think he is misreading Sabbadini, who says Palaeologus was in Verona on 21 February. It looks like he left Venice on 9 February [my correction later to 12 February, see below], and was welcomed by Guarino in Verona on 21 February.
http://www.rosscaldwell.com/marzianotex ... 1931p8.jpg
http://dbooks.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/books/P ... 609509.pdf
That is Aurispa to Traversari, writing from Venice on "III idus februrarias." The ides of February is 13 February, so iii idus februarias is 11 february. Assuming Aurispa was always with the emperor, both were still in Venice on 11 February. How long would it take to reach Verona?
Yes, he says "Graecorum rex cras hinc discedet ut Mediolanum eat et nos una secum." "The King of the Greeks will leave from here tomorrow to go to Milan and me with him." Thus they left on 12 February.
In any case, there does not seem to have been a visit to Milan in February 1424.
Normal count and Roman months compared - https://books.google.fr/books?id=619JAA ... 22&f=false
http://www.rosscaldwell.com/marzianotex ... 1931p8.jpg
http://dbooks.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/books/P ... 609509.pdf
That is Aurispa to Traversari, writing from Venice on "III idus februrarias." The ides of February is 13 February, so iii idus februarias is 11 february. Assuming Aurispa was always with the emperor, both were still in Venice on 11 February. How long would it take to reach Verona?
Yes, he says "Graecorum rex cras hinc discedet ut Mediolanum eat et nos una secum." "The King of the Greeks will leave from here tomorrow to go to Milan and me with him." Thus they left on 12 February.
In any case, there does not seem to have been a visit to Milan in February 1424.
Normal count and Roman months compared - https://books.google.fr/books?id=619JAA ... 22&f=false
Re: What are the documents for Marziano's dates?
448If it took the imperial entourage 9 nights to reach Verona from Venice (nights of 12 to 20 February), and the left Verona on 22 February to get to Milan (per Sabbadini's note), then it should have taken them almost two weeks to reach Milan. But he was only in Lodi on 17 March, so he took a longer way.
Yes, Gill's statement that he left Milan on 9 February is a misprint for Venice, and the date is wrong. This mistake made it into Setton.
Yes, Gill's statement that he left Milan on 9 February is a misprint for Venice, and the date is wrong. This mistake made it into Setton.
Re: What are the documents for Marziano's dates?
449I don't get the younger Regesten, but found some older by a work of 1841. According this Sigismund was 5th of August in Ofen and in Totes (at least) since 15th of August.
The visit of the Eastern emperor is not dated. The author assumes, that the emperor is the father of John VIII, Manuel. This should be an error.
Geschichte Kaiser Sigmundʼs von Joseph Aschbach: Die Zeit des Hussitenkrieges bis auf die Eröffnung des Basler Conciliums, Band 3
Joseph Aschbach
F. Perthes, 1841 - 486 Seiten
https://books.google.de/books?id=r45Sy- ... is&f=false
pages 194/195 (with error about Manuel)
The visit of the Eastern emperor is not dated. The author assumes, that the emperor is the father of John VIII, Manuel. This should be an error.
Geschichte Kaiser Sigmundʼs von Joseph Aschbach: Die Zeit des Hussitenkrieges bis auf die Eröffnung des Basler Conciliums, Band 3
Joseph Aschbach
F. Perthes, 1841 - 486 Seiten
https://books.google.de/books?id=r45Sy- ... is&f=false
pages 194/195 (with error about Manuel)
Last edited by Huck on 23 Aug 2020, 11:30, edited 3 times in total.
Huck
http://trionfi.com
http://trionfi.com
Re: What are the documents for Marziano's dates?
450Yes, Setton also notes, at the end of the main note we are studying, that Barker also thought that only Manuel was called Emperor. But we know from the primary sources that all of the Italians called him Emperor, so the Germans must have too. Aschbach may have been under the same impression, without all the sources available that we have now.