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Re: Petrarca Trionfi poem motifs in early Trionfi decks

My reason for bringing up this card - as well as other cards showing people on top holding symbols of domination in both hands - is to say that we need not suppose a familiarity with a tradition of Petrarch illustrations now lost, going back to the time of the Cary-Yale, to find precedents for Robe...

Re: Petrarca Trionfi poem motifs in early Trionfi decks

I fail to see what martyrdom has to do with Petrarch's Triumph of Eternity, the Modrone World card (or any World card), or the verses on the Robertet page. This is partly because you misunderstood what I meant in relation to the Visconti di Modrone World card. I was trying to get you to finally see...

Re: Petrarca Trionfi poem motifs in early Trionfi decks

Unfortunately, you didn't notice that I updated my post to correct the mistake I made with regard to the palm and crown in the original Latin (almost a day before you posted your reply to it). But equally unfortunately, you haven't yet really grasped the religious significance of the palm and crown ...

Re: Petrarca Trionfi poem motifs in early Trionfi decks

A little addendum to my previous post: Not only did Robertet make no mention of the Christian's reward in his French verses, he appears to have consciously removed the only (indirect) allusion to it in the Latin verses, by changing the final line from Felices animas regia nostra tenet to Celestem pa...

Re: Petrarca Trionfi poem motifs in early Trionfi decks

Mike, we can be quite confident that Robertet was not responsible for designing those images, and that they must have been copied largely unchanged from a mid-15th century Italian source. The Latin quatrains not only refer directly to several elements visible in them, they also largely read as thoug...

Re: Petrarca Trionfi poem motifs in early Trionfi decks

The only other links between Robertet's images and tarot cards are the Love, Time, and Wheel of Fortune images, and none of those provide compelling evidence that the tarot deck was based on Petrarch's Trionfi . It could simply be that those three subjects were depicted on some tarot cards in the 1...

Re: Petrarca Trionfi poem motifs in early Trionfi decks

While I am asking for things, I need to ask why you think that Robertet's copy must have had the images, at least with their important details. Unfortunately, we're now at the stage where I can't reply without simply repeating things I've already said. I've already addressed this point and all your...

Re: Petrarca Trionfi poem motifs in early Trionfi decks

I've found what appears to be another difference between the Modena wording and the wording in Robertet's Italian manuscript: longa in the 3rd line of the Death quatrain. This is longua in the mss. 5065, 12423, Molinet, and 1717. Only 24461, its copy 5066, and 12490 have longa . Longua is very unusu...

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