I intend to collect these threads via link at the thread "Collection Playing Cards before 1377 ; theme -1377"
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1155
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Werner von Orseln 1324-30
I found in "Quellenstudium zur Geschichte des Schachspiels" (1881) by chess expert van der Linde following note:
https://archive.org/details/quellenstud ... p?q=orseln
p. 59
The relevant note is in the last sentence, translated this is: "In 15th century the Hochmeister Werner von Orseln allowed the knights of the Deutschen Orden from Livland and Prussia the game of chess, whereby he at same opportunity prohibited the use cards and dice."
Van der Linde says "15th century", however Werner von Orseln had been Hochmeister from 1324 - 1330. Van der Linde gives no source for his statement.
List of the Hochmeister with Werner von Orseln
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_ ... hen_Ordens
1324 - 1330: Werner von Orseln
Life of Werner von Orseln (also Werner von Ursel)
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_von_Orseln
This sounds promising, however, in detail we can read in the Wikipedia article:
Which translates: "In the years of the downfall of the order the Deutschmeister (Deutschmeister is something different as Hochmeister) Eberhard von Saunheim with reference to the Statutes of Werner von Orseln claimed the autonomy of the Deutschmeister against the Hochmeister. The dispute went over 10 years from 1439 - 1449. However, the statutes of Werner von Orseln proved to be a forgery."In den Jahren des Niedergangs des Ordens erhob der Deutschmeister Eberhard von Saunheim unter Berufung auf die Statuten des Werner von Orseln den Anspruch der Autonomie vom Hochmeister sowie sogar auf eine richterliche Erhöhung des Amtes des Deutschmeisters über den Hochmeister. Der Streit zog sich über zehn Jahre von 1439 bis 1449 hin. Diese Statuten des Werner von Orseln erwiesen sich jedoch als Fälschung.[1 = Dieter Zimmerling: Der Deutsche Ritterorden. S. 281.]
So for the moment there is the question, if the note of van der Linde refers to the mentioned forged Statutes (which seems somehow probable), and the other question, if it was of interest to Eberhard of Saunheim to forge also just the sentence about the playing cards. Normally one should expect that a forgery would use older statutes, and that only the relevant detail (autonomy of the Deutschmeister) would be changed.
From the work of F. Hübsch about Bohemian trade from 1850 we've the not referenced information, that Polish nobility played with playing cards before 1340. The notes of Hübsch (not only the remark about Polish nobility), which were made in his interest to write about Bohemian trade, have strong contrast to the general fand far spread opinion of modern playing card research, which states "playing cards distributed in Europe since ca. 1370".
see ... http://trionfi.com/0/p/95/