Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote: Thanks Steve. That's a very interesting fantasy painting, that reminds me of Breughels and Bosch. I can't see what he's wearing on his feet though - I wouldn't want to claim it as proof of anything.

It seems pretty clear to me at the 200% view - more clear than the Cary-Yale bateleur's footwear in fact.

Reminded me of the Breughels and Bosch too.

See the poulaine like footwear of the woman in the picture of The Meeting of Jephthah and his Daughter by the Siennese artist BENVENUTO DI GIOVANNI (or according to others Pietro di Domenico, Francesco di Giorgio or Girolamo di Benvenuto )

click on the image and magnify it:

http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/b ... eting.html

(A lot of our examples seem to centered around Siennese artists?)

Are we any closer to knowing whether the Cary-Yale sheet is French or Italian?
Personally it looked French to me, until I coloured it. Then it looked Italian.
I wondered why this might be and it all came down to the Magician/Bateleur looking like he was dressed in white.
Pierrot or Arlecchino.

~Lorredan

Lorredan wrote:Are we any closer to knowing whether the Cary-Yale sheet is French or Italian?

or German or Swiss ...

No, I don't think so, not yet. Clearly a quick google search or browse through image archives show there are examples of poulaines or pattens in Italian art from the late 14th to early 16th centuries. Even though it may be that such use from the mid-15th century may be shown to indicate foreign dignitaries or entertainers, biblical scenes of innocent Jewish daughters or strange wandering magicians (which from a quick internet search I don't think can be said with certainty at this point), nonetheless, there they are in Italian art, by Italian artists.

SteveM

Lorredan wrote:

Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote:Thanks for the highlighted Cary Sheet Marco!

I'm puzzled by how you coloured the Bagatto's arm - you know it is firmly and absolutely established, and that no-one can contradict, that the top part is a monkey's hand, holding on to the shoulder of the magician ;)

Monkey? One thing is perfectly clear from these three facts: the table isn't firmly grounded; he's wearing a thought-transference helmet and aero-dynamic footwear. Therefore the Bateleur is a visitor from Alpha Centauri and the item on his back is a jet pack to enable him to move about in Earth's atmosphere... Q.E.D

Pen

SteveM wrote:
Reminded me of the Breughels and Bosch too.

"Many of his colleagues from Milan to update and learn the best painting technique did not choose the cities of central Italy, but went to the north, in Flanders: Zanetto Bugatto, a favorite court painters Sforza, for instance, was left at the shop Rogier van der Weyden between 1460 and '63. Art Milan was therefore a mixture of different styles: a strong and always appreciated based International Gothic (especially on the brothers Zavattari), are joined with certain peculiarities Flemish (in portraits, especially, and the pictorial details of a typical certain style Lombard), there were more modern influences such as those of Brescia Vincenzo Foppa, those Ferrara, those Mantegna. In the late 70's came to town Bramante, who with his majesty made a definitive change in the course of art in Milan. It is in this environment that the style of the new generation of Lombard artists have grown up, in portraits of Ambrose, set the Flemish Gothic there is some kind of balance, clear vision of the Nordic and the nucleus of a potential hint of modernity. All together, these features form the typical Milanese painter."

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_A ... _de_Predis
trans. google.

The workshop of Rogier van der Weyden we have already met:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... iature.jpg

"Zanetto Bugatto (Milan, documented from 1458 - 1476) was a painter Italian.

"Official portraitist at the court of Galeazzo Maria Sforza, the fifth Duke of Milan, where he arrived in 1458 and where he painted (in 1460) a portrait of Ippolita Sforza, daughter of the Duke, and probably that of the Duke himself, exhibited in the Pinacoteca del Castello Sforzesco ( dated between 1474 and 1476). He was also instructed to provide designs for coins and medals, which was derived from the approach profile portraits, strong appeal to the Roman imperial coins.

"He was sent from 1460 to 1463, alone among the painters of Lombardy, to perfect in Rogier van der Weyden in Brussels. Between 1460 and 1470 attributed to him the realization of the Madonna and Child Foundation Cagnola to Gazzada.

"In 1468 we have news of his trip to France. In 1472 he worked with Bonifacio Bembo in Santa Maria delle Grazie at Vigevano and in 1473 with Bembo and Vincenzo Foppa in San Celso and the ducal chapel at the castle of Pavia.
Shortly before his death in 1476, worked in a cycle of frescoes for the church of San Giacomo Pavia out. At his death, the Duke tried to get to Milan by Antonello da Messina, then working in Venice, but the same year the duke was assassinated in the church of Santo Stefano and Antonello returned to Sicily."

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanetto_Bugatto
trans. google.

Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote:
The trouble is that I can't find any iconographic evidence that the poulaine was worn in Italy in the 15th century; in the late 14th century, judging by Giovannino de' Grassi and Michelino da Besozzo illuminations, it was briefly in fashion in the Visconti court - a court heavily influenced by French customs.

Also XIV century here is the Dance of Death at Clusone with figures wearing poulaines:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... detail.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... lusone.jpg

From Milan Cathedral XV century:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... t-2009.jpg

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... t-2009.jpg

But for the 15th century (at least after 1410), I can't find any evidence of anybody in Italy wearing them, except perhaps foreigners (foreign-looking musicians, for instance, are wearing poulaines in Cristoforo de Predis' illuminated De sphaera, around 1465).

One of the flute/drum players wears them, on another there is a harpist and also one of the couples. Here for example is the harpist and the couple. What identifies them as 'foreign'?

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8 ... .f1.langEN

A detail in the fragment at the right of the Empress has caught my attention. I now think that fragment presents a tiara, rather similar to that of the Visconti Sforza Papesse. In particular, the fringed tissue (a lappet) on the shoulder is very similar. Next to the lappet, I think there is some curled hair. If so, this figure is different from the Visconti Sforza Papesee: it could be a Papesse with long hair or a Pope with a long beard.

SteveM wrote: The workshop of Rogier van der Weyden we have already met:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... iature.jpg

"Zanetto Bugatto (Milan, documented from 1458 - 1476) was a painter Italian.

"Official portraitist at the court of Galeazzo Maria Sforza, the fifth Duke of Milan, where he arrived in 1458 and where he painted (in 1460) a portrait of Ippolita Sforza, daughter of the Duke, and probably that of the Duke himself, exhibited in the Pinacoteca del Castello Sforzesco ( dated between 1474 and 1476).

Weyden himself and his workshop as well as providing a training ground for Italian artists such as Bugatto were directly commissioned by Italian patrons, for example by Alessandro Sforza (1409-1479) for the Sforza tryptich:

http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/w ... orza1.html

(click on the image and then the degree of magnification)

St. Bova on the left, with Falcon, is wearing poulaines.

I have a particular interest in straw hats at the moment.
On the back is what has been described as a pack back on the possible fool of the Cary Yale sheet.
There is one glaring difference between Italian peasant hats and French ones.
There is this round bobble thingy in the center of French straw hats, that is not on Italian ones. It is the way they were made.
This is French.
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/heavenlycra ... rw957s.jpg

I think what is on the back is a hat- not a pack pack. 15th/16th Century pack packs looked very similar to what they do now with a bed roll on top.
This is an Italian peasant hat- later, but not much had changed.
http://nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings ... onths-june

~Lorredan
ps. Loved the contrast with the Visconti Marco!