Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote:Huck wrote:
The article of Andrea gives a "c. 1494", which is not a "real 1494".
Actually it seems, that the relevant text appeared 1521 in this collection "Opera Jocunda":
http://pms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_Jocunda
The Opera Jocunda starts with ...
"Macarronea contra macarroneam Bassani "
... and this is a Maccaroni text against nobody else than Bassano Mantovano, who just was responsible for the only other early (15th century) "Tarochus".
So, what we have is a literary dispute between two poets, one pro-Milan and the other likely Pro-France and Pro-Piemont (in 1521 France still had Milan). Both use the word Taroch or Tarochus (both only once) .That's not a far spread use. What we likely have, is, that both makes jokes with the use of this word and we actually have difficulties to understand this word and the context.
Boiardo's "Cinque Capitoli" weren't published until 1523 - would you be comfortable suggesting that perhaps some forger of the 1520s ascribed Boiardo's and Vitti's names to his own, much later, work?
In any case, I don't understand your resistance to the etymology.
Here we've an Italian life of Alione (it gives 1529 as his death year).
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovan_Giorgio_Alione
But the time of his death is in dispute, as Andrea argues. But the lowest year I saw was 1521. So we have to assume, that the Opera Jocunda was published, when the author still was alive. In other words: it's likely,that the author himself edited his work in 1521 ... of course he used works, which were written much earlier. But nonetheless he had opportunity to change these texts "a little bit".
In the given situation it would be naive to conclude, that the earlier works entered the edition "not changed". So for any detail in these work we've to assume "might be from 1521".
As we focus on a single sentence, this is crucial. If we would focus on the whole text, we could likely assume, that the greater part of the work really was from 1494, which, as it seems, was analyzed by some researchers. This wouldn't hurt somebody.
But we focus on a single sentence, and a very escalated interpretation problem of the word "Tarocchi", and damn, such a sentence could be easily changed. Also we have to calculate, that the card game Tarocchi in 1521 was a big symbol ... which it wasn't in 1494.
I wrote:
You didn't take the opportunity to offer a translation. Andrea himself offered:
"there are many fools who are descendants from Ferragù"
... so Andrea took the assumption "taroch = Fool" and interpreted on request Ferragù with "Ferragù is a common surname in Piedmont. In the text there are several references to people who the poet knew and that hated."
The whole is written in Piemontese dialect and creates by this confusing translation problems. Andrea is on his way to ask specialists about the meaning of the work. Well, that's good.
I observe, that an accidental meeting of a crucial word "taroch" (unknown in use before 1494, but becoming very important as it became the name of a famous card game)) and a word "Ferragù" very similar to Ferrara is very strange, as just "taroch" and "Ferrara" meet also in the document in 1505, which is first known use of the word Taroch in playing card context.
The use of "confusing names" especially in theater plays (in the manner, that the names carry a second message
and meaning, which explain their real function in the plan) was very common. It appears for instance very obviously in the Philodoxus of Alberti 1424 and also in the La Casseria of Ariost in 1508 (nearly each name of the theater play figures was given a background meaning) ...
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Cassaria
Die Namen bringen (teilweise) den Charakter der jeweiligen Person zum Ausdruck (z.B. Erofilo ~ der Erotomane, Volpino = das [schlaue] Füchslein [it. "volpe" = dt. "Fuchs"], Lucrano ~ der Raffgierige [it. "lucro" = dt. "Gewinn"]).
La Casseria (played in Ferrara - of course) is of special interest as it uses ALSO a figure called "
Trappola" and Trappola wasn't then already established as a famous Italian card game, which as Taroch developed during the begin of 16th century;
this is a major detection, not considered elsewhere before - afaik)
The assumption of a somehow legendary person Ferragù, who had much idiots in his descend, isn't backed up by a real person, who might have been this such honored "Ferragù" and I don't know, if this is possible - maybe or maybe not.
I personally would consider, that this accidental close meeting of Taroch and Ferragu indicates a statement like "many Tarocchi cards descended from "Ferrara" (= Alfonso d'Este. as often reigning heads were addressed with their home country name), so something, which the poet hardly couldn't have done in 1494, but could have well done after 1505 and especially have well done in 1521.
***********
Well, in the interpretation of a poet one naturally should consider the surrounding conditions of his life. The poet was bound to the city of Asti, and Asti clearly had a French destiny at least since already 1494 (the poet himself wrote French, Piemontese, and Italian).
Just in 1521 the French king Francois I. (still in the possession of Milan) declared war on Charles V., German/Spanish king and later emperor.
http://www.storiadimilano.it/cron/dal1501al1525.htm
1521 22 aprile - Francesco I dichiara guerra a Carlo V.
As poets and literary works were generally used for political propaganda, we likely can't ignore, that the whole book production of the work of a poet, who all his life had worked as a French propagandist, just in 1521 was published ... likely with French money. Book production is a matter of money - as usually - and poor poets don't have this money - usually. In 1521 it was opportune for the French crown to help to distribute theater plays and poems with some Pro-French character.
Answering in short to ...
Ross wrote:Boiardo's "Cinque Capitoli" weren't published until 1523 - would you be comfortable suggesting that perhaps some forger of the 1520s ascribed Boiardo's and Vitti's names to his own, much later, work?
In any case, I don't understand your resistance to the etymology.
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I don't make statements about the text development of Boiardo's "Cinque Capitoli". The difference between these productions is clearly, that Boiardo was dead since 1494 (so naturally also dead in 1523) and that the Piemontese poet was still alive in 1521 (and so could influence the production).
I've elsewhere already made strong arguments for a origin of the word Taroch after the results of the battle of Fornovo at 6th of July 1495 - at the river of Taro. This is controversial to the assumption, that the name developed from the meaning "silly, foolish". I've also interpreted the Bassano passage as of reporting to a situation likely given in September 1495. The post stayed not answered from your side.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=610&p=9160&hilit=t ... novo#p9160
... yes, I think so. When this theater play was given (for the first time) in September 1512, the cardinal of Gurk, Matthias Lang, was an important guest. Matthias Lang was clearly a German/Austrian figure. 
he Farsa is in English at link:
bout Farsa Satyra Morale, to be correct the meaning of the translation of the phrase where tarot and minchiata are mentioned is the following: