animal riddle - Hartberger Karner
Posted: 02 Mar 2011, 00:33
From Johannes of Rheinfelden (1377) we know, that he had a playing card deck with 60 cards, which presented in its suit "four kingdoms":
http://trionfi.com/0/p/10/
This is mainly based on ...
Mag. Dr. Alexandra Gerrer:
Die Fresken im Karner in Hartberg
http://www.kunstbewertung.at/Karner.pdf
(more pictures at end of the article)
Information to restaurations end of 19th century:
Daniel 7 at Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_7
Traditional explanation
Hartberger Karner
Originals (more or less)
Lion
Bear
Leopard
"A terrifying, powerful beast, unlike any other, crushes and devours the whole earth with its iron teeth—trampling it down. Ten kings/kingdoms will come out of this kingdom. Then a different sort of horn uproots 3 of the kings/kingdoms. And will be boastful."
King on horse (heavily reconstructed)
Additional kings (?) - possibly wrong restauration
totally reconstructed (?)
Room-orientation
Later pictures to Daniel
Hans Holbein the younger
1612, from Antiquae urbis splendor, 1612
Matthäus Merian the Elder (1593–1650) ... in 1630
There are other, more colorful pictures, in the web. Try "Hartberg" and "Karner"
http://trionfi.com/0/p/10/
During my research to animals I found the "Hartberger Karner (Austria, near Vienna) and found it interesting. There's a dispute, if the animals had once been presenting "7 deadly sins" or "4 animals of the Daniel vision". As 7 deadly sins they would have been the oldest known pictorial representations.As suits Johannes perceives symbols for the 4 world regiments Babylon, Persia, Greek and Rome: "Schellen" (still a German/Suisse suit sign) present the Greek King, eagles (shields, often with eagle, are a known suit sign) the Roman king, the Babylonian has a man-head (perhaps coins?) and the symbol of the Persian king even Johannes doesn't recognize. He points to a painting ... which is missing in all copies of the text.
This is mainly based on ...
Mag. Dr. Alexandra Gerrer:
Die Fresken im Karner in Hartberg
http://www.kunstbewertung.at/Karner.pdf
(more pictures at end of the article)
Information to restaurations end of 19th century:
Hypothesis "7 sins"Zu den „Neuschöpfungen“ Melichers zählen: Das
Gewölbe (Abb. 20), zum Großteil der König auf dem Pferd (Abb. 10), der König auf dem
Drachen (Abb. 11), der König auf dem Wal (Abb. 12), die Taube mit dem Zweig im Schnabel
(Abb. 13), Christus und der Apostel Johannes (Abb. 17), der Teufel, der einen nackten Mann
und Judas in den Höllenrachen treibt (Abb. 17).9
Hypothesis "Daniel Vision"Bei den Sieben Haupt-(Tod)sünden handelt es sich um Hoffart, Geiz, Unkeuschheit,
Neid, Unmäßigkeit, Zorn und Trägheit. Diese Rangordnung, eine Gewichtung der Sünden,
wurde von Thomas von Aquin verbindlich festgelegt.44 Nach den Ausführungen Walter steht
somit der Löwe für den Hochmut, das Schwein für die Unkeuschheit, der Ochse für die
Unmäßigkeit, das Kamel für den Zorn, der Esel für die Trägheit, der Drache für den Neid.
Übrig bleibt der Geiz, der Walfisch sei aber dafür nicht passend, der Drache für den Neid ist
allerdings auch nicht passend, da weder in Bibel noch bei theologischen Schriften ein Zitat
über eine Assoziation vorkommt. Westerhoff hat die Ansicht Walters ohne Begründung
übernommen, nach seinen Ausführungen handelt es sich bei den Fresken um die älteste
erhaltene Darstellung der sieben Hauptsünden.
Daniel 7 at Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_7
Traditional explanation
More modern explanationOne traditional interpretation of these four beasts is that, in order from first to last, they are Neo-Babylonia, followed by the joint rule of the Medes and the Persians, then the Greeks and the Roman Empire.
There is general agreement among modern scholars that the four beasts represent Babylonia, Medes, Persia, and Alexander's Greek empire. The ten horns represent the kings from Alexander on through the Seleucid kingdom.
Hartberger Karner
Originals (more or less)
Lion
Bear
Leopard
"A terrifying, powerful beast, unlike any other, crushes and devours the whole earth with its iron teeth—trampling it down. Ten kings/kingdoms will come out of this kingdom. Then a different sort of horn uproots 3 of the kings/kingdoms. And will be boastful."
King on horse (heavily reconstructed)
Additional kings (?) - possibly wrong restauration
totally reconstructed (?)
Room-orientation
Later pictures to Daniel
Hans Holbein the younger
1612, from Antiquae urbis splendor, 1612
Matthäus Merian the Elder (1593–1650) ... in 1630
There are other, more colorful pictures, in the web. Try "Hartberg" and "Karner"