The rules of tarot

#1
Hi friends!

I open this thread for the rules of tarot.

Sources

French tarot:

1. Michel de Marolles. Règle du jeu des Tarots. Nevers, 1637.

http://www.tarock.info/depaulis.htm

2. Anonymus. An Maison académique des Jeux. París, 1659.

http://www.tarock.info/maison_academique.htm

Tarocchino

3. Carlo Vincenzo Maria Pedini. Ms. Gozz. 140, 40v-55r de la Biblioteca dell'Archiginnasio di Bologna. Bologna, c. 1746.

http://www.tretre.it/menu/accademia-del ... .html#c483

4. Carlo Pisarri. Istruzioni neccesarie per chi volesse imparare il giuoco dilettevole delli Tarocchini. Bologna, 1754.

http://www.tretre.it/menu/accademia-del ... html#c1251

Minchiate

- Regeln des Minchiatta-Spiels, Dresda, 1798, Waltherischen Hofbuchhandlung

http://www.tarock.info/Minchiatta.htm

- Regole Generali del Nobilissimo Giuoco delle Minchiate, Roma, 1773, Capponi e Bartolomicchi

Sumary in:

http://germini.altervista.org/#Min

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General rules (modern):

http://www.pagat.com/tarot/

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We can imagine what were the rules in the beginning?
When a man has a theory // Can’t keep his mind on nothing else (By Ross)

Re: The rules of tarot

#3
:)

Ok. I begin with the "blocks" ^^

From the beginning (CY or mysterious deck of Bologna):

1. The Trionfi is a deck with triumphs, which have more value than other cards. Including the king (k).

Do we agree on this?
When a man has a theory // Can’t keep his mind on nothing else (By Ross)

Re: The rules of tarot

#4
mmfilesi wrote::)

Ok. I begin with the "blocks" ^^

From the beginning (CY or mysterious deck of Bologna):

1. The Trionfi is a deck with triumphs, which have more value than other cards. Including the king (k).

Do we agree on this?
Maybe the Martiano da Tortona description of the Michelino deck contains something, what might be called "rules". The gods are superior to all other cards, also kings.
http://trionfi.com/0/b/11

Maybe the Johannes of Rheinfelden text of 1377 contains something, which might be called "rules" ...
Arne Jönssen got all 4 four versions of the text together and wrote a report, about which we reported here:

http://trionfi.com/0/p/10/

Something in Jönssen's report sounds, as if they knew "trumping" already then. Jönssen promised to translate the text ... in 2003.
Actually I would like to have at least one of the 4 editions ... but it's not online, as far I know it.

There was an English translation, but I think, it only took 2-3 pages. Jönssen spoke of a text of ca. 300 pages (possibly including his own commentary).
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: The rules of tarot

#5
Yes, thank friend!

(I hope too read someday Johannes, which seems to be the origin of the tarot).

Well, continued ^^. Second block.

Premises:

1. On Michelino's deck we have two pairs opposite:
However, the order of these Birds is, although none of their type has right over another, yet this arrangement they have alternately – Eagles and Turtledoves lead from many to few: that is to say it goes better for us when many cultivate virtue and continence; but for Phoenices and Doves, the few rule over the many, which is to say that, the more the followers of riches and pleasure are visible, the more they lead to the deterioration of our station.
2. On Boiardo's deck we have two pairs opposite:

http://trionfi.com/0/h/

Amor, Speranza vs Gelosia, Timore

3. On tarocchino we have two pairs opposite:

Spade & Bastoni (semi neri) vs Coppe & Denari (semi rossi)

4. On minchiate we have two pairs opposite:

Spade & Bastoni (semi neri) vs Coppe & Denari (semi rossi)

BUT! :-o

In Michel de Marolles. Règle du jeu des Tarots. Nevers, 1637, don't said nothing about two pairs opposite...

We can think that the tarot, in originally, have two pairs opposite? What do you think friends?


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In English is not correct Rules of tarot? :-\
When a man has a theory // Can’t keep his mind on nothing else (By Ross)

Re: The rules of tarot

#6
mmfilesi wrote: (I hope too read someday Johannes, which seems to be the origin of the tarot).
Maybe we should all write Arne Jönsson and beg him to finish it, or publish at least a preliminary edition.

I am sure that Brother John's playing cards and Tarot (if by that you mean the trumps) are not directly connected in any way.
We can think that the tarot, in originally, have two pairs opposite? What do you think friends?


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In English is not correct Rules of tarot? :-\
I believe that the original game had Swords and Batons Ace low, Ten high, and Coins and Cups Ten low, Ace high.

The French rules have never known this.

You can say "(The) Rules of Tarot" in English, yes :)

Another rule that goes back a long way is the playing counterclockwise rule - this seems to be indicated in the Borromeo fresco (1445 circa).

Another is to have four players playing in two pairs, said by Ugo Trotti (1456).
Image

Re: The rules of tarot

#7
mmfilesi wrote: BUT! :-o

In Michel de Marolles. Règle du jeu des Tarots. Nevers, 1637, don't said nothing about two pairs opposite...

We can think that the tarot, in originally, have two pairs opposite? What do you think friends?
The old expression for ONE card deck is "paro" ... pairs (not only in Italy). For the "established playing card culture" of the later time this meaning wasn't interesting. A playing card deck had 4 suits ... though in two colors (black and red, rouge and noir, and PAIR and IMPAIR ... in roulette ... .-) )
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: The rules of tarot

#8
Hello
Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote:I believe that the original game had Swords and Batons Ace low, Ten high, and Coins and Cups Ten low, Ace high.
The French rules have never known this.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought they did : isn't that the part of the earliest french rule described in http://www.tarock.info/depaulis.htm that reads
les hautes de couppes & deniers ne sont pas de plus grande valeur que les basses des Espées & bastons.
the high ones from cups & coins are not from higher value than the low from swords & bastons
which explains why one should remove 10s, 9s and 8s from cups and coins and Aces, 2s and 3s from Batons and Swords
il est bon d'oster douze cartes inutiles des quatre peintures, c'est a dire trois de chacunes, sçauoir les dix, neuf, & huict des couppes & deniers, & les trois, deux & az d'espées & bastons qui sont les moindres de chacun de ces points,
poor english translation below :
it is good to remove twelve useless cards from the four colors, ie three from each : ten, nine & eight from Cups and Coins, & three, two and az from Swords and Bastons which are the less valued cards from each of these points


Bertrand

Re: The rules of tarot

#9
Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote: I believe that the original game had Swords and Batons Ace low, Ten high, and Coins and Cups Ten low, Ace high.

The French rules have never known this.
I am pretty sure I have seen french rules that do state this, not only with Latin suits but with French suits too; I'll try and recall/find a reference.
Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.
T. S. Eliot

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