Re: Oldest Card Interpretations in English

2
Hi Mary,

Thanks very much for posting this.

Reading through the fortunes, I'm not sure I can tell if there are any themes running through the suits? It seems that the majority of all of the answers deal primarily with love relationships, with occasional overall happiness, but I can't discern any particular difference between suits, or numbers even. Very much like a random bunch of verses that were just laid down on top of a set of cards (hey, not so unlike the decan system in modern tarot after all! ;;) ).

In a way, this is similar to the Bolognese tarot divination (the earliest tarot divination we have found (thanks Ross), I believe), and even Etteilla, in it's apparent randomness. This all makes me wonder when a "system" was first developed giving each suit a different emphasised theme?

Nevertheless, much fun and a great find! Thanks again!

Re: Oldest Card Interpretations in English

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robert wrote: This all makes me wonder when a "system" was first developed giving each suit a different emphasised theme?
The division in to good and bad suits seems quite old, both Etteilla and Mellet indicate the generally malignant character of the sword/spade suits; and I think there are indications of this in Jack the Gyant Killer too, with interpretation being based upon the significators of the characters being surrounded by good or bad suited cards, with diamonds apparently being for the good, "— all will be well — these Princes are surrounded with Diamonds;" and spades bad "The Knave of Spades, Madam, seems to threaten Danger, ...Some Spades of ill aspect mingled with them, but the Hearts and Clubs take off their malevolent Quality."

SteveM

ps: nice find Mary :-bd

Re: Oldest Card Interpretations in English

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A Little piece of wimsey for you Mary. I learned Tarot from an old Cartomancy book (I had no Tarot books except LWB RWS) It had many snippets of fancy within...some true, some not.
One such snippet is here in this thread post # 5 which is a little different from your notes.
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.ph ... =Partridge

Clog calenders:http://www.schoyencollection.com/calendars.htm

scroll down to MS 1581 a pictorial clog calendar and look at the contents of contents No 6 Prophecies and prognostications. (1425 circa) Now somewhere there is a clog calendar in Verse around this time in old English- that I think may predate the book you are talking about. I had it printed out, but lost it in a flood. Bad days were in Scythes and firebrands, and good days in Crowns and hands.

~Lorredan
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: Oldest Card Interpretations in English

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Lorredan - Regarding the tarotforum material - the verse about Partridge's death was by Jonathan Swift writing as Isaac Bickerstaff (see my blog article for links).
Well; 'tis as Bickerstaff has guess'd,
Though we all took it for a jest:
Partridge is dead; nay more, he died
Ere he could prove the good 'squire lied.
Strange, an astrologer should die
Without one wonder in the sky!
Not one of his crony stars
To pay their duty at his hearse!
No meteor, no eclipse appear'd!
No comet with a flaming beard!
The sun has rose, and gone to bed,
Just as if Partridge were not dead;
Nor hid himself behind the moon
To make a dreadful night at noon. . . .

You can find the rest of the verse and the epitaph here:
http://infomotions.com/etexts/gutenberg ... /16126.htm
I don't see anything about Trout.

I found MS 1581 with its mention of prognostications, but I didn't see anything having to do with cartomancy. Interesting book. Thanks.

Mary

Re: Oldest Card Interpretations in English

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Maybe there were two verses......
This one was supposed to be in the Tatler about Partridge. He was supposed to be an Almanac printer as well as a cobbler. Hence the connection with Clog Calendars. (Therefore I believe cards were used for fortune telling earlier than thought usually)

Here, five foot deep, lies on his back
A cobbler, starmonger, and quack,
Who to the stars, in pure good-will,
Does to his best look upward still.
Weep, all ye customers, that use
His pills, his almanacs, or shoes;
And you that did your fortunes seek,
Step to his grave but once a week.
This earth, which bears his body's print,
You'll find has so much virtue in't,
That I durst pawn my ears 'twill tell
Whate'er concerns you full as well

Great find regardless!

~Lorredan
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts
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