Re: Council of Constance

I found a list, which speaks of Lombardian kings. I expected actually, that there would be a higher number of congruent entries to the Visconti list (as presented at However, there are only very few.

(Historia Langobardorum)
by Paul the Deacon (Paulus Diaconus)
Translated by William Dudley Foulke, LL.D.
Published 1907 by the University of Pennsylvania ... BEN%5D.pdf
The list is at page 3/47 ...
Actually I detect only "37 Desiderius" identical to Desiderius, the last Lombard king and possibly 36 Agistulfus identical with Aistulf (sic) 4 places above the position of Desiderius on the Lombard king list. So my earlier consideration was somehow wrong ....

Re: Council of Constance

Hic Rachis rex fuit Longobardorum, tribum annis post sponte relinqueris regnum cum vxore et filijs ueste monachali est indutus. iacet Papie in sancti Maria de Cacijs.


Hic Agistulfus rex Longobardorum, maximam familiaritatem habuit cum pipino rege franchorum. iacet Papie in sancto Marino. ibique multa corpora sanctorum honorifice condidit.

Hic Desiderius ultimus rex Longobardorum. cccm sarracenorum deuicit. Adrianum papam et Karolum magnum ab eorum obsidione liberauit, captis ex eis. xxij. Lxxm. eorum cesis.
Agistulfus = Aistulf
Rachis = Ratchis

Cestelletto inverts their order, but these two are also in the genealogy.

Re: Council of Constance

HISTORY OF THE LANGOBARDS, page 47/47 ... BEN%5D.pdf
Yes, you're right, there are 3 identical names. The change of Aistulf to Desiderius appears all in the year 756.

Born in Brescia, Desiderius was originally a royal officer, the dux Langobardorum et comes stabuli, "constable and duke of the Lombards," an office apparently similar to the contemporaneous Frankish office of dux Francorum. King Aistulf made him duke of Istria and Tuscany and he became king after the death of Aistulf in 756. At that time, Aistulf's predecessor, Ratchis, left his monastic retreat of Montecassino and tried to seize the kingdom, but Desiderius put his revolt down quickly with the support of Pope Stephen II. At his coronation, Desiderius promised to restore many lost papal towns to the Holy See, in return for the papacy's endorsement of his claim. Conflict with the Holy See under Pope Stephen III arose, for Stephen opposed Charlemagne's marriage to Desiderius' daughter.
Aistulf (also Ahistulf, Aistulfus, Haistulfus, Astolf etc.; Italian: Astolfo; died December 756) was the Duke of Friuli from 744, King of the Lombards from 749, and Duke of Spoleto from 751. His reign was characterized by ruthless and ambitious efforts to conquer Roman territory to the extent that in the Liber Pontificalis, he is described as a "shameless" Lombard given to "pernicious savagery" and cruelty.
Ratchis (also spelled Rachis, Raditschs, Radics, Radiks; died after 757) was the Duke of Friuli (739–744) and King of the Lombards (744–749).

Re: Council of Constance

I don't get this text. I got Busch, which is a nice text. ... 00001.html
page 227

As far I can see it, Busch comes to similar ideas as myself for Anglus, Angera, Brutus and Inglexio.

Do you know this:
Theatrum Triumphale Mediolanensis Urbis Magnalium, Annalistica Proportione Digestum
Salvator Vitale
Malatesti, 1642 ... us&f=false

The text has the pair "Elimach+Gemebundus" (see list) connected to a year number "annum mundus", likely for the year "X" after creation of the world. The author variously refers to "Chron. Flamma".
I searched the author name "Vitale" in the Busch text ... negative. "Theatrum" ... also negative.

Re: Council of Constance

Occasionally in our discussions the personal name "Francus" had appeared. He was - at least in one version - the brother of the British Brutus.

Wiki ...
connected to
connected to (Britain) (Britain) (Antenor) (Portugal) (Portugal) (Hungary)Čech (Czechs) (Poland) (Russia),_Čech_und_Rus

Re: Council of Constance

But is there any such Urvater for "England"?

They wanted Brutus for Britain, but England comes along later that classical times, from the Angles. Maybe that tribe derived itself from some mythic father, but I haven't come across it.

Starting searching on wikipedia - "Bede states that the Anglii, before coming to Great Britain, dwelt in a land called Angulus, "which lies between the province of the Jutes and the Saxons, and remains unpopulated to this day."

But no Urvater by that name - "According to Anglo-Saxon legends recounted in Widsith and other sources such as Æthelweard (Chronicon), their earliest named ancestor was a culture-hero named Sceaf, who was washed ashore as a child in an empty boat, bearing a sheaf of corn."

It seems improbable to think no one ever connected Anglus with the Angles or English peoples, but evidence remains elusive.

Re: Council of Constance


.... :-) ... actually we should leave the theme Anglus aside, as it has nothing to do with playing cards and also nothing with the council of Constance.


Rex anglorum seems to have been a king's title of the Angelsachsen. The common German tongue - if it learns the English language - speaks the English word "England" with a German "Ingland". The unknown legendary "Inglexio" isn't in its letters far from it. If we assume, that the Angeln indeed came from the region Schleswig-Holstein (ideal country for people with a seafaring history), then the shortest way from Schleswig-Holstein to England would have been along the nordfriesischen Inseln till the end of the row - island Texel - and then across the open sea till England.



Texel and the nordfriesischen Inseln looked different in 800 AD. In the year 1170 Texel lost the earlier connection to the continent by the Allerheiligenflood.


The island Texel today during low tide time.


The distance between Texel and middle England in the region of Norwich is about 200 km, in contrast to the much shorter distance between Calais and Southern England. According the distribution map of c 5th century the Angeln settled at the middle part and the invading Saxons in the lower part.


Re: Council of Constance


The Thurn-and-Taxis family established a very successful European post system, which endured some centuries.
The Thurn family developed (at least in theory) from the del Torre family, which once had a castle in Angera and was overcome in a battle 1277 by the Visconti.
This latter detail isn't noted in the English wikipedia ...
Herkunft und Namenserklärung

Das lombardische Geschlecht erscheint urkundlich zuerst mit Reinerius de Tasso im Jahre 1117. Odonus de Taxo wird 1146 im Val Brembana, nördlich von Bergamo, erwähnt; dort erscheint der Name auch um 1200 in Almenno.[2] Während der Kämpfe zwischen Guelfen und Ghibellinen, in Bergamo ausgetragen zwischen den Familien Colleoni und Suardi, wich die Familie in das einige Kilometer höher im Tal gelegene Camerata Cornello aus. Dort beginnt mit Homodeus de Tazzis (ital. Omodeo de Tassis del Cornello) im Jahre 1251 die Stammreihe. Der Ortsteil Cornello dei Tasso erinnert bis heute an die Familie.

Tasso ist das italienische Wort für Dachs, das Wappentier der Familie, eingedeutscht Dax, Daxen,[3] woraus sich der Name Taxis entwickelte. Im französischsprachigen Postvertrag von 1505 zwischen Philipp dem Schönen und Franz von Taxis wurde die Familie de Tassis genannt, wie es bis heute im Französischen üblich ist.
Omodeo de Tassis del Cornello starts the successfull part of the family ...
"Around 1290, after Milan had conquered Bergamo, Omodeo organized 32 of his relatives into the Company of Couriers (Italian: Compagnia dei Corrieri) and linked Milan with Venice and Rome. The recipient of royal and papal patronage, his company was so comparatively efficient that post riders became known as bergamaschi throughout Italy."
He lived in Cornello dei Tasso, a part of Camerata Cornello near Bergamo (31 km North of Bergamo). ... 021408!3e2
Tasso means badger. The animal was used in the heraldic.


Als die inzwischen nach Brüssel übersiedelten Taxis 1624 in den erblichen Grafenstand erhoben wurden, brauchten sie zur Legitimierung für den beabsichtigten weiteren Aufstieg in den Hochadel eine illustre Abstammung. Alexandrine von Taxis beauftragte Genealogen, die Herkunft der Taxis zu „klären“, die bislang nur als kleines, in den Kaufmannsstand gewechseltes Rittergeschlecht galten. Diese behaupteten nun, wenn auch ohne urkundlichen Nachweis, dass die Taxis vom italienischen Adelsgeschlecht der Torriani, bzw. della Torre, abstammten, die bis 1311 in Mailand und der Lombardei geherrscht hatten.[4] Daraufhin beantragten die Taxis beim Kaiser eine Namensänderung. Bei der Eindeutschung wurde der Turm (Torre) zu Thurn (vgl. mhd. turn) und der zinnenbekrönte Turm der Torriani wurde dem Dachs als Wappenmehrung hinzugefügt.
In 1624 the Taxis got a count title near Brüssel. For further progress in the social hierarchy of the time they needed a descendance of higher nobility. Some genealogs dicovered, that the Taxis descended from the Torriani (= del Torre) family, which once had some reigning function in Milan and owned the castle of Angera till 1277. However, a document was missing, but this wasn't a problem (probably the current Taxis found a way to satify the current Torriani; the emperor probably got also something). The Italian Torre became an old German Thurn (= mod. German Turm).
Thurn und Taxis
Ab 1650 durften sich die Brüsseler Taxis mit Erlaubnis Kaiser Ferdinands III. von Thurn, Valsassina und Taxis nennen, woraus Thurn und Taxis wurde, im Französischen de la Tour et Tassis, auf italienisch della Torre e Tasso. Auch der Innsbrucker und der Augsburger Zweig der Familie benannten sich um.
Since 1650 the Taxis of Brüssel got the permission to call themselves "von Thurn, Valsassina und Taxis" and later "von Thurn und Taxis". In French this was "de la Tour et Tassis" and in Italian "della Torre e Tasso". The Taxis of Innsbruck and of Augsburg followed this new custom.

The family became very rich. And still they are.

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