Re: Council of Constance

Thanks very much, that gives insight into Marziano.

We should assume that his loyalty to Milan and the Visconti meant that he could no longer support Gregory XII after he made the end of the schism impossible by creating cardinals loyal only to him. Marziano probably also had a personal relationship with Philarges. This might have determined his course.

I don't know if Milan recognized Avignon (Benedict XIII) or Rome (Gregory XII), and I don't know who Giovanni Maria Visconti recognized, although Filippo Maria recognized John XXIII and not Gregory XII in the early teens.

Re: Council of Constance

Huck wrote:
11 Sep 2020, 14:20
Thanks, I had detected these dates already in the Marziano thread in the post from 28th of March 2020.
Are there any other factual dates with the direct participation of Marciano before May 1408? Or are the related activities (studies in various cities, birth date in the family chart) all organized by later reports?
The first historical record we have of Marziano is 24 April 1408, in Lucca with Gregory XII, notary and cleric of the Apostolic Camera. It is the same context as 4 May.

Anything we know about him before is from Barzizza's eulogy at his funeral, where he talks about his early life and lists where he studied. The last place was Florence, but he gives no dates.

A family chart was made in the 17th century, and is also reconstructed from later documents that mention "Marziano son of the late Giovanni" for instance. Then we know who Giovanni is, and we find him earlier, so we start to see how they were related. The only fixed date for birth is 1389/90, for Enrico Rampini, Marziano's nephew. Enrico's tombstone in Rome in 1450 says he was 60 years old. Enrico is the younger brother to Urbano, from the father Francesco, who is Marziano's younger brother. So Urbano is at least roughly two years older than Enrico, and Francesco must be old enough to marry and provide a family (they were not princes but working people, usually notaries), so he was probably 25 when Urbano was born. If Urbano was born in 1386, this means that Francesco was born in 1361, and Marziano before that. I say, roughly, 1360.

Re: Council of Constance

This shall be Giangalezzo and his cousin Catherina at their wedding according .... ... 5/?gallery

The wedding should have happened 1380 ... and Violante (Giangaleazzo's sister) could marry a Bernabo's son Ludovico for this.

The radiant sun more or less is the same (with 8 arrows) as that of Pietro da Candia ...

Later Giangaleazzo's sun has more arrows and that of Peter of Candia has 7.

Re: Council of Constance

Huck wrote:
11 Sep 2020, 15:52
This shall be Giangalezzo and his cousin Catherina at their wedding according .... ... 5/?gallery
I'd use anything by Maike Vogt-Luerssen (aka Kleio) - as well as Jona Lendering for classical material (featured heavily on - with extreme caution; both see ruler's likeness in just about any contemporary art. In this case she is not off as she appears to be using the identification proposed by Meiss/Kirsch back in 1972 in their discussion of BR1 in the Visconti Hours (pp. 23-24). However, the identification by Vogt in that same linked webpage of the two angels flanking the risen Christ as Giovanni Maria and Filippo - holding up Giangaleazzo-Christ - is an especially embarrassing identification:

"Gian Galeazzo Visconti with his sons Giovanni Maria and Filippo Maria" [care to guess which one is supposed to be Filippo?]


At least corroborate whatever identification is being made with an art historian's research. I know that image is not central to your current point, just saying...


Re: Council of Constance

Yes, I also guess, that is often too optimistic.
However, in this case the picture is at wikimedia with 16 other pictures

The name is "Folio BR1 of the Visconti hours", otherwise I find also "offiziolo di Gian Galeazzo Visconti BNC Firenze" ... NC_Firenze
The central figure looks like a Greek person in his outfit. Might be Pietro da Candia himself, if is correct with Giangaleazzo's 2nd marriage. As wedding date I found October 2 in 1380. For Pietro da Candia I'd ...
Education. Entered the Order of the Friars Minor (Franciscans) at the convent of Candia, ca. 1357. Studied at Padua, Norwich and Oxford University, where he obtained a licentiate in theology; and at La Sorbonne University, Paris, where he obtained a doctorate in theology in 1381. Magister in theology.

Priesthood. Ordained (no further information found). He taught at Franciscan houses of study in Russia, Bohemia and Poland. He lecture on the "Sentences" of Peter Abelardo in Paris, 1378-1380. Professor of theology at the University of Pavia from 1386. Protégé and privy counselor of Gian Galeazzo Visconti.
It looks not probable, that Pietro da Candia was in 1380 in Pavia or Milan. But the marriage had no good stars in the beginning, there were no children. And Bernarbo was difficult. Giangaleazzo revolted at May 8, 1385. And Bernarbo died a half year later. Things were settled in 1386. Then Pietro da Candia had arrived in Pavia. The oldest son was born in 1388. Filippo Maria followed later.

The duchy of Milan was in 1402 (death of Giangaleazzo) considerable larger than the later Milan.

If the person with long beard wasn't meant as the Greek bishop, then Bernarbo might be indicated ... .-)


Facsimile ... -facsimile
The page has a movie ...

... there seem to be two books, and the picture with the wedding motif seems to be the first picture of book 1.
The Making of the Visconti Book of Hours
Bearing different names, the Offiziolo Visconti, or Libro d’Ore Visconti, Visconti Book of Hours, this manuscript is a prayer book containing Hours and Psalms. It is divided in two volumes and it is richly illuminated. This Book of Hours was certainly commissioned by Gian Galeazzo Visconti.

He is mentioned twice in the second volume of the manuscript and his heraldry appears throughout the codex. The date is not certain, but the style and iconography of the illuminations point to a period around 1388, the year of the birth of Giovanni Maria, first child of Gian Galeazzo and Caterina Visconti.

The Eccentric Pictorial Program of the Visconti Book of Hours
Full-page miniatures and historiated initials introduce principal text divisions. The large decorative cycle includes 38 full-page miniatures and 90 historiated initials. Two quite different artists painted this extravagant Book of Hours, probably one of the most spontaneous and fanciful of Western illuminations.

At the end of the fourteenth century, Giovannino de’ Grassi and his workshop painted the opening folios of the manuscript for Giangaleazzo Visconti. Giovannino de’ Grassi displayed in the illuminations his personal style: his focus on the effects of lights is visible in the rays of light radiating from saints and prophets. These lines give a precious and luminous effect to the scenes.

Typical of his artistic language is the poetic but careful examination of the natural world and the landscapes. Bright colors and a precise use of gold leaf as well as silver provide the manuscript with a precious appearance. In 1402, Gian Galeazzo died and the work on the manuscript was interrupted.

Working under the patronage of Filippo Maria, son of Gian Galeazzo, the artist Belbello da Pavia completed the second part of the codex. Many illuminations belong to the early career of Belbello da Pavia and show the highly detailed and elegant style. Border decoration designed with extreme variety and imagination further enrich the Book of Hours.

Re: Council of Constance

Huck wrote:
09 Sep 2020, 11:10
I remember, that Ross stated once, that the content of the genealogy (with its Greek connections) was already prepared otherwise. Nonetheless the actual genealogy project might have been inspired by the presence of Chrysolares.
All of the information is given in this post and some following, from a book linked there -

The earliest genealogy is from a text called Chronica Danielis (first column of Busch "Übersicht 11"). It starts with "Anglus." It is anonymous, I believe, but pro-Visconti and probably written at the behest of Matteo Visconti, either during his his life or later in the 1320s, in order to show ancestral claim to Angera (=Angleria, thus Anglus). Matteo did this in order to link the Visconti name to the Lombard kings.

Anglus himself is given a genealogy by Galvano Fiamma, in the 1330s, making him Ascanius' son. With Ascanius, the classical and Roman mythological genealogy becomes explicit. Venus' name explicitly occurs first in a genealogy chart in Galvano Fiamma's Politeia Novella (shown at the thread linked above), but Anchises and Venus are presumed at the outset once Anglus is made Ascanius' son.

But there is nothing particularly "Greek" about it. It is all from Latin sources, both classical and medieval.

Re: Council of Constance

I took a look ...
Geoffroy of Monmouth .... (c 1090-1100 - 1154) had the idea, that Brutus the Trojan was a descendant of Trojan hero Aeneas.
Brutus the Trojan ...
Historia Brittonum
Some have suggested that attributing the origin of 'Britain' to the Latin 'Brutus' may be ultimately derived from Isidore of Seville's popular 7th-century work Etymologiae, in which it was speculated that the name of Britain comes from bruti, on the basis that the Britons were, in the eyes of that author, brutes, or savages.[1] A more detailed story, set before the foundation of Rome, follows, in which Brutus is the grandson or great grandson of Aeneas — a legend that blends Isidore's spurious etymology with the Christian, pseudo-historical, "Frankish Table of Nations" tradition that emerged in the early medieval European scholarly world (actually of 6th century AD Byzantine origin, and not Frankish, according to historian Walter Goffart)[2] and attempted to trace the peoples of the known world (as well as legendary figures, such as the Trojan house of Aeneas) back to Biblical ancestors.[3][4][5][6]

Following Roman sources such as Livy and Virgil, the Historia tells how Aeneas settled in Italy after the Trojan War, and how his son Ascanius founded Alba Longa, one of the precursors of Rome. Ascanius married, and his wife became pregnant. In a variant version, the father is Silvius, who is identified as either the second son of Aeneas, previously mentioned in the Historia, or as the son of Ascanius. A magician, asked to predict the child's future, said it would be a boy and that he would be the bravest and most beloved in Italy. Enraged, Ascanius had the magician put to death. The mother died in childbirth.

The boy, named Brutus, later accidentally killed his father with an arrow and was banished from Italy. After wandering among the islands of the Tyrrhenian Sea and through Gaul, where he founded the city of Tours, Brutus eventually came to Britain, named it after himself, and filled it with his descendants. His reign is synchronised to the time the High Priest Eli was judge in Israel, and when the Ark of the Covenant was taken by the Philistines.[7]

A variant version of the Historia Brittonum makes Brutus the son of Ascanius's son Silvius, and traces his genealogy back to Ham, son of Noah.[8] Another chapter traces Brutus's genealogy differently, making him the great-grandson of the legendary Roman king Numa Pompilius, who was himself a son of Ascanius, and tracing his descent from Noah's son Japheth.[9] These Christianising traditions conflict with the classical Trojan genealogies, relating the Trojan royal family to Greek gods.

Yet another Brutus, son of Hisicion, son of Alanus the first European, also traced back across many generations to Japheth, is referred to in the Historia Brittonum. This Brutus's brothers were Francus, Alamanus and Romanus, also ancestors of significant European nations.[10]

Historia Regum Britanniae
Geoffrey of Monmouth's account tells much the same story, but in greater detail.[11] In this version, Brutus is explicitly the grandson, rather than son, of Ascanius; his father is Ascanius' son Silvius. The magician who predicts great things for the unborn Brutus also foretells he will kill both his parents. He does so, in the same manner described in the Historia Brittonum, and is banished. Travelling to Greece, he discovers a group of Trojans enslaved there. He becomes their leader, and after a series of battles they defeat the Greek king Pandrasus by attacking his camp at night after capturing the guards. He takes him hostage and forces him to let his people go. He is given Pandrasus's daughter Ignoge in marriage, and ships and provisions for the voyage, and sets sail.

The Trojans land on a deserted island and discover an abandoned temple to Diana. After performing the appropriate ritual, Brutus falls asleep in front of the goddess's statue and is given a vision of the land where he is destined to settle, an island in the western ocean inhabited only by a few giants.

After some adventures in north Africa and a close encounter with the Sirens, Brutus discovers another group of exiled Trojans living on the shores of the Tyrrhenian Sea, led by the prodigious warrior Corineus. In Gaul, Corineus provokes a war with Goffarius Pictus, king of Aquitaine, after hunting in the king's forests without permission. Brutus's nephew Turonus dies in the fighting, and the city of Tours is founded where he is buried. The Trojans win most of their battles but are conscious that the Gauls have the advantage of numbers, so go back to their ships and sail for Britain, then called Albion. They land on "Totonesium litus"—"the sea-coast of Totnes". They meet the giant descendants of Albion and defeat them.

Brutus renames the island after himself and becomes its first king. Corineus becomes ruler of Cornwall, which is named after him.[12] They are harassed by the giants during a festival, but kill all of them but their leader, the largest giant Goemagot, who is saved for a wrestling match against Corineus. Corineus throws him over a cliff to his death. Brutus then founds a city on the banks of the River Thames, which he calls Troia Nova, or New Troy. The name is in time corrupted to Trinovantum, and the city is later called London.[13] He creates laws for his people and rules for twenty-four years. After his death he is buried in Trinovantum, and the island is divided between his three sons: Locrinus (England), Albanactus (Scotland) and Kamber (Wales).
The Visconti ancestor list at ...
1. Anchises------------Venus
2. Eneas Rex
3. Ascanius Rex
4. Anglus Primus Rex (? Anglus = English ?)
5. Anglus Iunior Rex (? Anglus = English ?)
6. Ascanius Rex (Rex Angler e Mediolani) (? Rex Angler = English King ? Rex Mediolani = King of Milan ?)
7. Abida Rex
8. Sisoch Rex
9. Iulus Rex (? Iulus appears otherwise as name of the father of Brutus ?)
.... etc
"Chronicon Danielis" gets at google .... ... -SIM_00452
Chronica Danielis de comitibus Angleriae
(368 words)
[Chronica Mediolanensis 606-1145]

12th century. Italy. Town chronicle of Milan in Latin. Galvaneus Flamma, who used the Chronica Danielis as a source, explains that Daniel was a magister parrochia S. Ambrosii, but otherwise nothing is known of the author. The chronicle opens with the narration of the coronation of Aliono, son of Millio of Inglexio as king of Italy, on 7th January 606. Ample space is given to the description of the translatio of the relics of the Saints Peter and Paul from Rome to mount Pedale, in 707, during the reign of Desiderius, king…
The list has ...
29. Milo Rex (? Millio of Inglexio, Inglexio = England ?)
30. Rolandus Rex (? Roland in Germany, Orlando in Italy ?)
31. Milo Rex (? Millio of Inglexio, Inglexio = England ?)
32. Alienus Rex (? Aliono 606 ?)
33. Galvaneus Comes
34. Perideus Rex
35. Rachis Rex
36. Agistulfus Rex
37. Desiderius Rex (? Desiderius 707 ?)
Perhaps the study of the following articles gives some light in the question between Angeln and Langobards:


State c. 100 AD

But there is nothing particularly "Greek" about it. It is all from Latin sources, both classical and medieval.
I would say, that "Venus (or Aphrodite) is the daughter of Dione and Zeus" is a Greek idea around Dodona. The idea, that Aphrodite was born by the falling genital of Uranos is also Greek (Hesiod). The Italian Venus was originally a Garden and Vegetables goddess, as far I know. No daubt, that was also of importance. The Sforza princess, which married the Polish king, was famous for her import of vegetables in Poland.


Filippo Maria Visconti had a sort of third name: Philippo Maria Anglus
By Antonio di Puccio Pisano, called Pisanello, c. 1441.
Obverse: Bust of Filippo Maria Visconti facing right, wearing soft-top cap and brocaded top embroidered with flowers and a crowned wreath encircling a dove. Around, PHILIPPVS MARIA · ANGLVS · DVX · MEDIOLANI · ETCETERA · PAPIE · ANGLERIE · QVE · COMES · AC · GENVE · DOMINVS (Filippo Maria Anglus, Duke of Milan et cetera, Count of Pavia and Angera, and Lord of Genoa), with a star separating the beginning and end of the inscription.
Ludovico Sforza also called himself Anglus ...
The title of Ludovico il Moro contains 'ANGLUS DUX' instead of 'VICECOMES DUX'.
Hess Divo, Zurich: auct.315 no.1184 (10.2009) hammer price 31.000 CHF
Doppio Ducato n. d. Ø 26 mm, 7,06 g. CNI 198/7; MR 267/2; Crippa II 1B, Friedb.698.
Obv.: (head of St. Ambrose) LVDOVICVS·Maria· - SFortia·AN - GLVS·DVX·MedioLanI·
ANGLVS means 'descended from the old count of Angera'.
Armored bust to the right, coat of mail around the neck.
Rev.: ✠ PaPiae·ANGLEriae·Que3·COmes·AC· - IANVaE·Dominus·7C' [7C = et cetera]
The crowned Duke on a galloping horse, in armor and with raised sword.
Both horse and rider wear badges showing the Visconti snake and the 'imprese Scopetta'.
The legend on both sides translates:
"Ludovicus Maria Sforza Anglus, Duke of Milan, Count of Pavia (Papiae),
Angera (Lago Maggiore) and Lord of Genoa (Ianua), etc."
Angera is ...
The earliest known inhabitants of the area were hunter gatherers who made use of the cave known as the Wolf's Den (Tana del Lupo), at the foot of the cliffs. By the Roman era, Angera (then known as Statio, a place for changing horses) was an important lakeside port on a trading route, but by the fourth century it was in decline, and in 411 was destroyed, along with Milan, by the Visigoths. By the eleventh century, the area had passed into the ownership of the Archbishops of Milan, and the first castle was built on a strategic site above the town. The district came under the rule of the House of Visconti in the thirteenth century, and in 1449, it was sold to the Borromeo family. It received the title of city from Duke Ludovico il Moro in 1497.
One of the main buildings in the town is the Rocca Borromeo di Angera (Borromeo Castle), a castle overlooking Lake Maggiore at the top of a 200 metres (660 ft) limestone hill, on the side opposite to the town of Arona. ... d8.5715193



Re: Council of Constance

If you want to know about Anglus, Inglexia, Englerie, etc. in the histories and genealogy, the best place to start is with Jörg Busch's thesis here, pages 225-233 - ... 00001.html

Phaeded already showed that Filippo Maria (and Giovanni Maria) were able to add Anglus to their names from an imperial grant given to Gian Galeazzo, recognizing them as counts of Angera (that's my impression, I'll have to get more clarity on it).

If they saw any connection between Angleria, Inglexia, etc. and England, I haven't seen it.

I'm surprised to see Ludovico use "Anglus," since I recall that Filippo Maria gave Angera to Borromeo in 1446. The castle remains in that family's possession.

Re: Council of Constance

The Rocca Borromeo di Angera, or Rocca d'Angera, also called Borromeo Castle, is a castle on a lakeside hilltop in the limits of the town of Angera in the Province of Varese on the Southern shores of Lago Maggiore. It is visible from across the lake from Arona, where originally stood another castle formerly owned by the Borromeo family.
Situated on a lime rockspur on the Lombard shore of Lago Maggiore, the fortress faces that of Arona, Piedmont. It controlled almost the entire body of water, a large portion of the territory of Varese, at a strategic junction with the river Ticino. The Visconti of Milan started construction of the castle in the 1100´s and its current form was built between the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries.
The Della Torre family had besieged the castle over and over again, destroying it considerably. After the Battle of Desio in 1277, the Torriani lost it to the Visconti, beginning with Bernabò Visconti and his wife, Beatrice della Scala. In 1449, the castle was purchased by the Borromeo family who expanded and refurbished the castle over the centuries up until the present day. The castle suffered damage during bombardment in the second world war.
see also:

As it seems, the Visconti had early a place there, possibly a sort of starting point. The name "Angera" (in the case, that the Visconti gave it to the location) remembered possibly a real or an imagined descension of the Angeln, which once were really closer neighbours to the Langobards and possibly mingled with them ("According to Tacitus, writing before their move to Britain, Angles lived alongside Langobardi and Semnones in historical regions of Schleswig and Holstein, which are today part of southern Denmark and northern Germany (Schleswig-Holstein)"). Schleswig-Holstein has about 16.000 square-km and is so a little more than the half of Luxemburg and Luxembourg isn't a large country. So it would not realistic to imagine, that Angeln and Langobards didn't know each other. The advantage of Schleswig-Holstein is similar to the advantage of Korinth, it has the North Sea at the left and the Eastern Sea at the right and so it's natural, that the people there had a lot to do with traffic and trade on the sea. So the Angeln went also to England.

Re: Council of Constance

One way to get at it is to see what Galvano Fiamma says about the sons of Ascanius. I haven't looked. Castelletto says he had five sons, with Anglus being the third. Busch should help us here with the earlier historians that Fiamma drew upon.

Castelletto says:
BnF latin 5888 genealogy, ff. 7r-12v.

Exordium Geneologie a qua descendit domus Vicecomitum et eiusdem domus Dux Mediolani Iohannes Galeaz, cum suis posteris per lineam rectam dimissis collaterablibus inter quos maxim fuere principes. Ordinate per Magistrum Petrum de Castelleto ordinis heremitarum sancti Augustini. Sacri loci beati Augustini de Papia. Ut infra patet mcccciii. die xxvj. mensis Ianuarij. Ad laudem dicti Illustrissimui Ducis.. (Text “Geonologie”)

Hic Iupiter rex cretensis, Venerem filiam suam iuniorem, copulat matrimonio Anchisi nepoti regis priami ac patris Enee.

Hic Eneas filius Anchisis accepta Lauinia filia regis Latini in vxore. Post dictum Latinum, regnauit ibidem annis tribus.

Hic Ascanius successor Enee patris in regno edificata Alba Longa regnauit annis xxviii et de quinque filiis habitis, tertius fuit sequens Anglus.

Hic Anglus tertius Aschanii filius. edificauit suo nomine Angleriam ciuitatem. sibi primum ibidem regium dyadema imponens in ligurie partibus.

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