Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote: 21 Aug 2020, 15:46 According to Fossati's notes to Decembrio's Vita, chapter 32, note 1 on pages 149-150, Johannes Palaeologus was in Milan on 25 or 26 March 1424, and stayed in the castle of Pavia one night, 3 May 1424. So Marziano's letter of April 1423 has nothing to do with it.

That's quite good, and it opens the possibility, that he spend 1 1/2 months at Milanese territory. Naturally it might also mean, that he actually stayed only twice a very short time and the other time for instance in Monferrat at the home of his wife. It would also be nice to have information about his entourage. Did Sophia accompany him? Were there scholars around him?

About Pisanello in Pavia ....

Primo soggiorno a Mantova
Nel 1422 Pisanello si trasferì a Mantova al servizio del giovane Ludovico III Gonzaga, cominciando ad acquisire grande fama all'interno delle varie corti lombarde, che iniziarono a contendersi i suoi servigi. La sua presenza in città è documentata il 4 luglio ed il 12 agosto di quell'anno ed ancora il 10 agosto 1423, su documenti relativi all'acquisto di un appezzamento di terreno nella contrada di San Paolo[6]. Alla corte di Mantova Pisanello venne in contatto con i primi fermenti umanistici, che venivano allora usati soprattutto in chiave di celebrazione dinastica[6].

Nel 1423 Gentile da Fabriano si trovava a Firenze lavorando alla Pala Strozzi. Valutando somiglianze tra brani dell'opera di Gentile e alcuni disegni del Codice Vallardi alcuni storici hanno ipotizzato in questo periodo un soggiorno di Pisanello a Firenze, proposta in genere scartata o messa in dubbio dalla maggior parte degli studiosi, con qualche eccezione (Coletti, Chiarelli), che accoglie anche la menzione vasariana dell'artista "giovinetto" al lavoro nella prima chiesa del Tempio a Firenze[6]. La pala di Gentile è tuttavia citata esplicitamente da artisti veneziani che non soggiornarono mai a Firenze, come Antonio Vivarini e Giovanni d'Alemania, da cui si può immaginare che in Laguna esistessero lavori perduti di Gentile che anticipavano brani del suo capolavoro. Pisanello l'avrebbe poi comunque potuto vedere in seguito, magari viaggiando verso Roma.

Pavia
Mentre a Verona il terzo marito di Isabetta dettava testamento passando probabilmente di lì a poco a miglior vita (22 settembre 1424), a Pavia Filippo Maria Visconti faceva sistemare e abbellire il castello, in previsione dell'arrivo di un ospite illustrissimo, l'imperatore bizantino Giovanni VIII Paleologo. A quest'anno vengono generalmente fatti risalire gli affreschi di Pisanello nel Castello con raffigurazioni di caccia[6].
Dell'opera resta solo una descrizione del Breventano (1570)[10]:
«le sale & camere tanto di sopra quanto di sotto sono tutte in volto, & quasi tutte dipinte à varie & vaghe istorie & lavori, i cui cieli era[n]o colorati di finissimo azzurro, ne quali campeggiavano diverse sorti d'animali fatti d'oro come Leoni, Leopardi, Tigri, Levrieri, Bracchi, Cervi, Cinghiali, & altri, e specialmente in quella facciata che rimirava il Parco (la quale come habbiamo detto fu rovinata co[n] l'artigliaria dell'essercito Francese alli quattro di Sette[m]bre l'anno del 1527) nella quale (come a giorni miei l'ho veduta intera) si vedeva un gran salone lungo da sessanta braccia e largo venti tutto istoriato co[n] bellissime figure le quale rappresentavano caccie & pescagioni & giostre con altri varij diporti de i Duchi & Duchesse di questo stato.»

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisanello

The emperor was back in Constantinople in November 1424. How this fits with the dates of the Pisanello biography I don't know. Posssibly Filippo hoped for a second visit of him, which never took place. Or it took place. I think, the emperor visited king Sigismondo in summer 1424.

The emperor returned as we know in 1438/39, but we don't know, what were the plans in 1424. Perhaps Filippo Maria hoped, that the council (Ferrara, Florence) would take place in Pavia. Actually there was a council in Pavia just in 1423/1424, but cause of a plague it was moved to Siena.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Siena
The council decided, that the next council should take place in Basel (decided at 19 February 1424). Filippo Maria's speculation might have been, that the Eastern emperor might cause, that the council was moved to Pavia again, if he would know about a nice place for himself in Pavia castle.

Actually it's a question, if the emperor had the plan to be present in Siena or Pavia cause of the council. Naturally he couldn't have had uptodate information about the situation a few 1000s of kilometers away, telephone and email didn't work properly.
Constantinople had real big problems ... the difficulties of the situation became clear, when the Ottomans took the city in 1453. Filippo was a young vital duke who had changed the destiny of a ruined duchy to a successful expanding state in 1421, when he took Genova.
Venice and Milan had a splendid economy in 1424. Venice could buy Thessalonici. Then they started a stupid war. In 1430 Thessaloniki was lost. The stupid wars proceeded till the point that Constantinople (a save point for nearly 1000 years) was lost.

Pisanello's association with these paintings appears to be speculation.

My book on Pisanello has a comprehensive list of documentation for Pisanello's life. Donata Battilotti "Les documents," in Lionello Puppi, ed., Pisanello (Hazan, 1996 for Italian original and French translation, simultaneously), pp. 236-249.

Under 1424, she references one of those also noted by Fossati, namely the 2 May 1424 order by Filippo Maria to prepare a room for the emperor's visit the next day, published by Carlo Magenta in I Visconti e gli Sforza nel castello di Pavia e loro attinenze con la Certosa e la storia cittadina (1883), volume II, document CLX (pp. 127-128), https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k322318x

Battilotti says: "On 2 May, Filippo Maria Visconti gives the order to prepare an apartment in the castle of Pavia in anticipation of the arrival of the emperor of Constantiople, John VIII Palaeologus. Some art historians (beginning with Venturi, 1896, p. 32) associate this event with the frescoes of hunting scenes by Pisanello, mentioned by Cesariano (1521, p. CXV) and by Michiel ([1526-1540], 1884, p. 12) and which have been lost (Les Peintures, II, n° 10). This dating is contested by other authors (beginning with Hill, 1905, p. 128), who place Pisanello's work in 1439-1440, on the occasion of the artist's stay in Milan (see these dates)."

I haven't looked up the other sources she cites, but the connection of Pisanello with this event in 1424 appears speculative at best.

The note from May 2, 1424, naturally relates to the real visit at May 3, 1424, mentioned by the other source.

However, a lot of webpages and other sources refer to the presence of Pisanello in Pavia in 1424. If it is an error, it's a mistake by many writers.

Huck wrote: 22 Aug 2020, 11:51 The note from May 2, 1424, naturally relates to the real visit at May 3, 1424, mentioned by the other source.

However, a lot of webpages and other sources refer to the presence of Pisanello in Pavia in 1424. If it is an error, it's a mistake by many writers.

It can't be called an error, but it is speculative. It is just that two 16th century authors report that the castle of Pavia had wonderful work by Pisanello. They don't describe it. That castle had many works over a century by many different artists.

In 1896, Venturi suggested that Palaeologus' visit might have been the occasion when he painted frescoes in the castle. But there is no mention of frescoes, or Pisanello, in that document, and Palaeologus only stayed one night. And Pisanello is not known to have been in Pavia in 1424.

Pisanello is, however, known to have stayed some time in Milan in 1440-1441, although there are no reports of him painting frescoes in Pavia at that time either. So some authors prefer to connect this to his medals, obviously some time with Filippo Maria, thus they suggest this was a better time for the frescoes that the 16th century authors report to have been made.

It cannot be ruled out that he painted something in the castle in 1424, nor that it could have been later. But for our purposes, it does not seem relevant. They were not heroes or gods, or even birds. The frescoes Venturi suggested were Pisanello's, were wild animals of the hunt, which already Gian Galeazzo had painted in the castle of Pavia in 1380. They could have been repainted, or painted over, but they weren't Marziano's subjects.

But for Filippo Maria's inspiration for the subjects, it could be that Gian Galeazzo, or his father Galeazzo, who built the castle, might have had a similar "vanagloria" made like that in Milan, which showed heroes.

Here is the page from George Francis HIll (Pisanello, 1905, p. 128) cited by Battilotti above, the earliest to dispute Venturi's suggestion of nine years earlier:

We have seen that the three medals just described seem to indicate that PIsanello went to Milan towards the end of 1441. From this time until about the end of 1442 or beginning of 1443 he may have worked there and at Pavia. This date for the Pavia frescoes is more satisfactory than the one hitherto proposed, 1424. For although we know that the Duke of Milan was carrying out new works in the Castle of Pavia in 1424, we have no evidence that they were of any importance.†
† As we have seen (p. 76 note †), the visit of John Palaeologus to Pavia in 1424 was only a passing one, and the work of Pisanello cannot be connected with it as Venturi supposes.

https://archive.org/details/pisanello00 ... 8/mode/2up

Here is the original proposition by Adolfo Venturi, Le vite de' più eccellenti pittori, scultori, e architettori. Edizione critica con note, documenti e 96 riproduzioni a cura di Adolfo Venturi (Florence, 1896), pp. 32-33.

It is at Hathi trust; European viewers will have to use a proxy server to see the pages.
https://catalog.hathitrust.org/api/volu ... 03895.html


http://www.rosscaldwell.com/marzianotex ... p32bis.jpg


http://www.rosscaldwell.com/marzianotex ... 896p33.jpg

The final paragraph is where Venturi makes his casual suggestion:

Al Pisano però non potevano appartenere quelle pitture, come sembra ritenere il Dell'Acqua che lo fece lavorare sulla fine del secolo XIV in molte città d'Italia; ma probabilmente il Pisano vi lavorò nel 1424, quando il duca Filippo Maria Visconti faceva allestire il Castello per l'arrivo dell'imperatore di Costantinopoli (v. Magenta, op. cit.).

"However, those paintings [those of the 14th century] could not belong to Pisano, as seems to be believed by Dell'Acqua, who had him working at the end of the 14th century in many Italian cities; but probably Pisano worked there in 1424, when Duke Filippo Maria Visconti had the Castle prepared for the arrival of the Emperor of Constantinople (see Magenta, op. cit.).

Here is a convenient summary of the evidence, with primary sources and English translation of the key passages, by Evelyn Samuels Welch, "Galeazzo Maria Sforza and the Castello di Pavia, 1469," The Art Bulletin Vol. 71, No. 3 (Sep., 1989), pp. 352-375.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3051134?se ... b_contents

Taken from pages 353-355 - (as always, click the link below for larger)


http://www.rosscaldwell.com/marzianotex ... anello.jpg

Thanks, I agree, that there are justified doubts about the presence of Pisanello for 1424 in Pavia.

But my major concern is about the stations of the journey of John Palaiologos VIII in 1423-1424 and the communicative actions between him and Filippo Maria Visconti.
Sebastian Kolditz:
Gesandte, Gelehrte und Besucher: Byzantiner in Italien im späteren 14. und im 15. Jahrhundert*
(* based upon unpublished reports in Köln and Wien 2014)
https://books.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/prop ... 190701.pdf
... gives a sort of statistical view about visits of Byzantines in Italy (14th + 15th century).

Generally I think, that the plague in Milan 1423/24, which caused, that the council moved from Pavia to Siena, wasn't totally overcome in spring 1424 (when the Byzantine emperor was present in Milan and Pavia). Generally there is also the impression, that Filippo Maria was at least in the second half 1424 very often in Abbiategrasso, together with his lover Agnese del Maino and the prisoner Carlo Malatesta. Carmagnola attempted to get some contact to Filippo Maria in Abbiategrasso, but wasn't allowed to see him (Carmagnola left his service after this). Possibly this behavior of Filippo Maria was also determined by the plague.

Is there a possibility to control this assumption (major stay at Abbiategrasso) by the letters of Filippo Maria in 1424?

I found this ...

The Papacy and the Levant, 1204-1571: The fifteenth century
Kenneth Meyer Setton
American Philosophical Society, 1976 - 580 Seiten
https://books.google.de/books?id=0Sz2VY ... 24&f=false


According this ....
John arrived in Venice at 15 December 1423. He was still in Venice on 17-27 January 1424. Then he went from Venice to Milan (?). He left (Milan ?) on February 9. He was at Lodi on March 17. He was back in Milan on May 3 (when he was expected to be at Pavia otherwise). Some time later he went to Hungary (Sigismund). He was back at the Bosporus c November 1. He got then a letter from Filippo Maria Visconti, written at the "16th" (whatever this shall be).

I've difficulties to recognize "Iorga ROL" ... Iorga is Niklas Iorga, a Romanian scholar, who became a politican later and was killed in 1940. He was rather productive. "ROL" I don't understand.

Huck wrote: 23 Aug 2020, 06:12
I've difficulties to recognize "Iorga ROL" ... Iorga is Niklas Iorga, a Romanian scholar, who became a politican later and was killed in 1940. He was rather productive. "ROL" I don't understand.

yes, I'm starting to look for it. Setton may be too casual with his places; Pavia on 3 May is confirmed by the letter of 2 May, instructing them to prepare for the emperor, Setton doesn't quote it (Magenta); a primary source. Also 25 of March, coming to Milan, is an eyewitness, writing in his diary (Morone); this too is a primary source that takes precedence as evidence.

Okay, on page 4 it is in the note, ROL = Revue de l'Orient latin.

Here is volume 5, from 1897
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k ... checontact

"Dölger" and "Wirth" Regesten should be this volume 5; I can only see snippet view. "3417" should be this on page 112.

https://books.google.fr/books?id=vuYZAA ... milarbooks

Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote: 23 Aug 2020, 07:28 "Dölger" and "Wirth" Regesten should be this volume 5; I can only see snippet view. "3417" should be this on page 112.

https://books.google.fr/books?id=vuYZAA ... milarbooks

I found the same source by searching for Mantua and the emperor and 1424 ...

https://books.google.de/books?hl=de&id= ... e&q=mantua
... in a German biography to the emperor I'd found the note, that there was a contact to Mantova in 1424. The emperor had left debts in Venice for which he had to leave worthful objects in the hands of the money-lenders. The signore of Mantua was active in the connected traffic of money and goods. "Aufgegeben in Mailand" likely means, that he organized the deal in Milan and possibly it means, that Filippo Maria helped with the money.