Re: What are the documents for Marziano's dates?

#491
Activities of Carmagnola in 1422
https://condottieridiventura.it/carmagnola/
1422 Feb. Lombardia
Rientra a Milano per assumere il comando dell’esercito contro gli svizzeri. Il governo di Genova viene affidato a Urbano di San Luigi.

Mar. Lombardia
E’ presente alla cerimonia in cui 24 ambasciatori genovesi cedono la città al duca di Milano senza condizioni.

Apr. mag. Milano Cantoni Svizzeri Capitano g.le 500 lance Svizzera
Il duca di Milano propone agli abitanti dei cantoni di Uri e di Untterwalden di rivendergli la città e la fortezza di Bellinzona che questi ultimi hanno acquistato nel 1419 dai signori De Sacco. Il Carmagnola occupa con un colpo di mano Bellinzona (di cui è eletto governatore); un po’ con le armi ed un po’ con gli accordi recupera la Val d’Ossola, la Maggia, Verzasca, la Riviera e la parte meridionale della Val Levantina. Si spinge sino al San Gottardo. Gli svizzeri iniziano dei negoziati perché sia loro restituita Bellinzona; non se ne dà per inteso e continua nella sua politica espansiva.

Giu. Svizzera
Le milizie di Uri e di Unterwalden (4000 uomini) invadono buona parte della Val Levantina giungendo a Bellinzona. Sono seguiti dalle truppe di Zug e di Lucerna: tutti insieme, infine, collocano i loro alloggiamenti davanti alla città agli ordini di Ulrico Welker. Il Carmagnola attraversa i monti che dividono la Moesa dal Ticino, sorprende gli avversari e toglie loro le salmerie; al comando di 2000 lance e 3000 fanti li affronta con Angelo della Pergola nel piano di Arbedo. Gli svizzeri fronteggiano i viscontei con il quadrato di picche e respingono la prima schiera milanese; Carmagnola fa allora scendere da cavallo i suoi uomini d’arme, come era solito fare Giovanni Acuto, e li lancia sugli avversari. Non dà loro quartiere anche quando gli svizzeri si dispongono alla resa: aggredito all’improvviso alle spalle da 600 fanti rimasti nella valle di Mesocco alla ricerca di foraggio, ordina la ritirata su Bellinzona. Rimangono sul terreno 3000 svizzeri e 1000 viscontei, di cui 400 cavalli della compagnia di Angelo della Pergola e 600 delle altre tre schiere. Di 7 barche che hanno trasportato il contingente svizzero fino a Fluelen, non ne ritornano che 2 con le bandiere non cadute nelle mani dei viscontei. A fine mese rientra a Milano. Risulta come teste nel palazzo del consiglio segreto, sito a Porta Vercellina, all’ infeudazione di Caorso a favore degli eredi di Ottone da Mandello.


Dic. Liguria
Il suo invio nel capoluogo ligure è interpretato come una punizione, una specie di esilio imposto dalòla cerchia di cortigiani come Zanino Riccio, Oldrado Lampugnani, Sperone da Pietrasanta e, forse, Guido Torelli, tutti invidiosi della fortuna del condottiero.
A Genova: i 4 governatori viscontei (il Torelli, il vescovo di Novara Pietro de Giorgi, il Pietrasanta e Franchino Castiglione) si allontanano dalla città senza attendere il suo arrivo. Si fa subito aumentare le sue prebende di altre 5500 lire genovine, oltre le 8000 che gli sono già state assegnate.
Automated translation of March + December 1422
March Lombardy
He is present at the ceremony in which 24 Genoese ambassadors surrender the city to the Duke of Milan without conditions.

April May Milan Swiss Cantons Captain of 500 Swiss lances
The Duke of Milan proposes to the inhabitants of the cantons of Uri and Untterwalden to sell him the city and the fortress of Bellinzona which they bought in 1419 from the De Sacco lords. Carmagnola takes Bellinzona (of which he is elected governor) with a coup de hand; partly with weapons and partly with agreements he recovers Val d’Ossola, Maggia, Verzasca, the Riviera and the southern part of Val Levantina. It goes as far as the San Gottardo. The Swiss begin negotiations to have Bellinzona returned to them; it does not take this for granted and continues its expansionary policy.

June Switzerland
The militias of Uri and Unterwalden (4000 men) invade a large part of the Val Levantina reaching Bellinzona. They are followed by the troops of Zug and Lucerne: all together, finally, they place their quarters in front of the city under the orders of Ulrico Welker. The Carmagnola crosses the mountains that divide the Moesa from the Ticino, surprises the opponents and removes their baggage; under the command of 2000 spears and 3000 infantrymen he confronts them with Angelo della Pergola in the Arbedo plain. The Swiss face the Visconti with the square of spades and repel the first Milanese group; Carmagnola then gets his men-at-arms off their horses, as Giovanni Acuto used to do, and throws them on his opponents. He doesn't give them any quarter even when the Swiss are ready to surrender: suddenly attacked from behind by 600 infantrymen left in the Mesocco valley looking for fodder, he orders a retreat to Bellinzona. 3000 Swiss and 1000 viscounts remain on the ground, including 400 horses from the company of Angelo della Pergola and 600 from the other three ranks. Of 7 boats that transported the Swiss contingent to Fluelen, only 2 return with the flags not fallen into the hands of the Visconti. At the end of the month he returns to Milan. It appears as witnesses in the palace of the secret council, located in Porta Vercellina, at the feuding of Caorso in favor of the heirs of Ottone da Mandello.

July Lombardy
Stay in Milan for the period July-August.

August Lombardia
At the end of the month it is always reported in Milan. With Francesco della Mirandola he assists as a witness in the headquarters of the secret council at the act of feuding Mulazzo and Rocchetta di Vara in favor of Tommaso Malaspina.

September Lombardy and Liguria
In the middle of the month he leaves Milan and goes to Liguria to take up the post of sole governor of Genoa. During the period his income in the duchy rose to 40,000, 50,000 florins a year.

December Liguria
His sending to the Ligurian capital is interpreted as a punishment, a kind of exile imposed by the circle of courtiers such as Zanino Riccio, Oldrado Lampugnani, Sperone da Pietrasanta and, perhaps, Guido Torelli, all envious of the leader's fortune.
In Genoa: the 4 Visconti governors (Torelli, the bishop of Novara Pietro de Giorgi, Pietrasanta and Franchino Castiglione) leave the city without waiting for his arrival. He immediately increased his prebends by another 5,500 Genoese lire, over the 8000 that have already been assigned to him.
So it seems, that the militarical activities of 1422 didn't find approval from the Visconti side. A little bit strange: English Wikipedia describes the history of Bellinzona.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellinzona
Expansion of Bellinzona under Milan

The Murata or town wall of Bellinzona
Under the control of the Visconti, trade flourished and Bellinzona grew. When an alternative route over the Alps, the Schöllenen bridge opened, traffic in the St. Gotthard increased to the highest levels ever.[14] During the second half of the 14th century a long wall, the Murata, was built across the Tessin valley, allowing Milan to protect and tax the trade route over the St. Gotthard Pass.[12] While the town was controlled by Milan through the Visconti after 1340, the Visconti did not have a formal title and feudal rights until 1396 when they were granted by King Wenceslaus. However, the orderly growth of Bellinzona was threatened in 1402 when Duke Gian Galeazzo Visconti died. In 1403 Bellinzona came under the control of Alberto di Sacco of Val Mesolcina, who held it until 1419 before it was taken over by Uri and Obwalden, which expanded into the Leventina Valley. Milan attacked the town three years later in 1422 after an offer to buy the town was rejected by the Swiss Confederation. The troops from Uri and Obwalden were quickly driven from the town and later defeated at the Battle of Arbedo on 30 June 1422. This defeat discouraged the expansionist intentions of Uri and its allies towards Lake Maggiore for a time.

During the period of unrest following Gian Galeazzo Visconti's death, a tower which would become the nucleus of the third castle, Sasso Corbaro, was built outside the town.

While the border between Uri and Milan was fixed in the peace treaty of 1426, in 1439 Uri invaded again. While they were unable to take Bellinzona, the victories of the Swiss troops led to Milan granting all of the Leventina Valley to Pollegio to Uri in 1441. Following the death of Duke Filippo Maria Visconti in 1447, Bellinzona was in the middle of the succession crisis between Franchino Rusca of Locarno and Heinrich of Val Mesolcina, who were allied with Uri and the Ambrosian Republic in Milan. The war following the succession crisis lasted nearly three years until Francesco I Sforza seized power in Milan. Bellinzona quickly accepted the new Sforza dynasty and the peace and stability that followed.[12]

The peace was broken again in 1478 when the Swiss once again attacked Bellinzona unsuccessfully. However Swiss pride was restored by the Battle of Giornico which followed, where a force of 600 Swiss soldiers defeated 10,000 Milanese troops. Following the attack, Milan built the Sasso Corbaro either on the site of a tower which had been built nearly a century before.[12] The other two castles were strengthened and the Murata wall across the valley was rebuilt. Much of the modern castles and fortifications date from this period of construction in the late 15th century.
It seems, as if Carmagnola's action was successful. Possibly his losses in the battle were perceived as too heavy ("suddenly attacked from behind by 600 infantrymen left in the Mesocco valley looking for fodder, he orders a retreat to Bellinzona. 3000 Swiss and 1000 viscounts remain on the ground, including 400 horses from the company of Angelo della Pergola and 600 from the other three ranks. "
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: What are the documents for Marziano's dates?

#492
Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote:
30 Aug 2020, 11:01

The wikipedia on Doges of Genoa says it was the "Rettorato del quattro Rettori," - which should mean "Rectorate of the four Rectors," sent directly by Filippo Maria Visconti. https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogi_dell ... 21-1435%29

It should be possible to find out who these were.
I think, they are here ...
In Genoa: the 4 Visconti governors (Torelli, the bishop of Novara Pietro de Giorgi, Pietrasanta and Franchino Castiglione) leave the city without waiting for his (= Carmagnola's) arrival. He immediately increased his prebends by another 5,500 Genoese lire, over the 8000 that have already been assigned to him.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: What are the documents for Marziano's dates?

#493
Yes it's those four. They are discussed by Fossati here, page 72, lines 46-70 of the notes.

https://books.google.fr/books?id=zHUtAQ ... io&f=false

Fossati cites the original sources of course.

Here is Giovanni Stella, Annales Genuenses, who says that Urbano de Sancto Alosio took over from Carmagnola on 17 January, column 1285 D-E. In the next column he names the four co-governors.
https://archive.org/details/RerumItalic ... 9/mode/2up
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Re: What are the documents for Marziano's dates?

#494
Which makes then ....
(1) Torelli, (2) the bishop of Novara Pietro de Giorgi, (3)Pietrasanta and (4)Franchino Castiglione
... in one version, and ...
(2)Januensis Dominus Petrus de Georgiis de Papia Episcopus Novariensis, ac (1)Guido Torellus de Mantua, (3)Speronus de Petra-Sancta Mediolanensis ac (4) Franchinus de Castiliono Legum Doctor Papiensis
.. in the other.

1.
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_Torelli
https://condottieridiventura.it/guido-t ... i-mantova/
https://gw.geneanet.org/fcicogna?lang=e ... =1&p=guido .... (married a Visconti)

2.
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pietro_de_Giorgi .... once a bishop of Tortona (1394-1413), followed by Enrico Rampini

3.
????? ... Pietrasanta is a location near Lucca

4.
http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/fra ... ografico)/ .... (long biography)

****************

The interesting part should lie in the condition, why the 4 governers didn't wait for the arrival of Carmagnola. Was this an expression of fear? Or of anger?
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: What are the documents for Marziano's dates?

#495
Huck wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 05:45

3.
????? ... Pietrasanta is a location near Lucca

Long note of Fossati on Sperone Pietrasanta here, pp. 244-247 -
https://books.google.fr/books?id=zHUtAQ ... 22&f=false

The note refers to chatper XL, "His devotion to his parents and brothers." (Ianziti page 63)

"His love for his mother was such that he was unwilling to pardon any of those who were responsible for her death. He had Cabrino Fondulo executed not long after the taking of Cremona, because he learned that he had been one of those who had plotted treachery against her. He was not content to have another participant in the same plot, Sperone da Pietrasanta, removed from high office, but had him put to death." (81)

Ianziti's note 81 (page 284): "As for Sperone da Pietrasanta, he served as a highly placed official in the Visconti administration before being abruptly dismissed in 1431. According to Felice Fossati (in Decembrio Vita Philippi Mariae, 244-47), Decembrio is our sole source for the story of Sperone's execution."


If you don't have Gary Ianziti's new edition of Decembrio's Vita (Latin and English), you should buy it immediately. The best way to search for anything in Filippo Maria's life is to use the search function inside Fossati's edition, linked above (there are other PDF copies online as well), and then to go to Ianziti to see if he says anything on it, with more recent discussion. Also, Ianziti provides a translation. Previously there is a German one from 1913, and an Italian one from 1983. The German translation is not online that I can find. Maybe you can find it - Philipp Funk, Leben des Filippo Maria Visconti und Taten des Francesco Sforza, Jena, 1913. https://books.google.fr/books/about/Leb ... edir_esc=y

Philipp Funk died in 1937, so his work should be in the public domain. But it appears from Google Books and Hathi Trust that some law somewhere makes anything published after 1882 still under copyright in Europe, so they are worried about the estate of Herr Funk suing them or something.
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Re: What are the documents for Marziano's dates?

#496
Huck wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 18:20
Guide to the castles, page 48, Abbiategrasso: "Losing before long its function as a defensive bastion and located conveniently near Milan and a large game reserve, beside being easily accessible by water, the fortress became Filippo Maria Visconti's favourite country residence.
Edoardo Rossetti, co-author with Federico Del Tredici, uploaded the guide to academia -
https://www.academia.edu/2063719/Percor ... view-paper
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Re: What are the documents for Marziano's dates?

#497
Manuel II Palaeologus in Pavia (with Chrysoloras), mid-March, 1400.

While researching Castellino Beccaria, this passage on condottieridiventura.it brought up that the Emperor Manuel Palaeologus (Manuel II) had been in Pavia in March, 1400.
1400
Mar.

Lombardia
In occasione del battesimo di un suo figlio e di uno del fratello Lancillotto organizza in Pavia un grande convito cui è invitato anche l’imperatore di Costantinopoli Emanuele Paleologo. Alla cerimonia intervengono come padrino l’arcivescovo di Milano tra Pietro da Candia; sono pure presenti il marchese Teodoro di Monferrato, Francesco Visconti e 200 nobili di Pavia e del distretto.
https://condottieridiventura.it/castellino-beccaria/

General description by Wilhelm Baum at "De Imperatoribus Romanis, an Online Encyclopedia of Roman Emperors,"
The emperor's trip to Europe, to the centers of political power, caused considerable excitement. On December 10, 1399 the emperor embarked on a voyage to Venice, Padua, Vicenza, Pavia, Paris and London to get help. John VII, regent of Selymbria, had lost the sultan's favor, because he had not betrayed the capital into Turkish hands. Presumably Boucicaut arranged his reconciliation with Manuel, who appointed his nephew co-regent. The emperor did not fully trust his nephew, however, since he left his family behind with his brother in Mistras. Patriarch Matthew I supported John VII as regent of the empire, primarily during the siege of Constantinople in 1401. The emperor's first stop was in Italy. Pope Boniface XII on May 27, 1400 ordered the payment of a "crusade-tithe" for emperor Manuel against the "perfidious Bayazit." For him this was a means of strengthening his prestige vis-a-vis the pope of Avignon. Charles VI of France received the emperor with great pomp in Paris in June 1400 as did Henry IV in December 1400 in London. The emperor employed Constantinopolitan relics and holy objects to win over the princes of Europe. He included even Spain in his plans of union. In the Aragonese archives there are still some few letters preserved in which military support is to be purchased with relics. In Milan he made the acquaintance of Peter Philagris, a Greek, who later became pope as Alexander V. Manuel's travels brought him just as little success as the previous ones which his father had undertaken. The highly educated emperor gained much sympathy in Europe. Unlike his father he offered neither a personal "conversion" nor a union with the Papacy. In 1400 he received the news that the Mongols had invaded Asia Minor. For Byzantium they were welcome allies against the Turks. While the emperor was still in Paris, news arrived of Bayazit's overwhelming defeat in the battle of Ankara (1402), which afforded Byzantium a chance to catch its breath. Tamerlane, the ruler of Samarkand, had defeated the rising Ottoman Empire and held it in check until his death in 1405. The emperor did not return home from Europe until 1403, having failed to secure either financial or political help.
http://www.roman-emperors.org/manuel2.htm

More detail is generally found in biographies of Manuel Chrysoloras, e.g. by Athanasia Theodoropoulou here -
Chrysoloras left Florence on 10 March 1400, the day after he announced his resignation as the chair of Greek at the Studium. Undoubtedly the reason for his early departure from Florence was the arrival of Emperor Manuel II Palaeologus in Italy, who has left Constantinople on 10 December 1399 to visit the European courts in an attempt to secure help for Byzantium. After a quick stop in Pisa, where he met his nephew John Chrysoloras on 11 March 1400, Manuel Chrysoloras joined Emperor Manuel II Palaeologus in Pavia. From 1400 to 1403, Chrysoloras stayed in Pavia and in Milan. During this period he moved around in Lombardy trying to collect funds for the Byzantine Empire. In the same period, he taught Greek intermittently, but very little is known about his teaching activities.
http://springer.iq-technikum.de/referen ... 48-4_783-1

Baum's list has Paris after Pavia, and between March and June it is hard to calculate how long he stayed in Pavia. Although he logically came via Venice,

Whatever the length of time Manuel stayed in Pavia, Filippo Maria was certainly there, even though too young for him to have learned anything substantial. We can't know if Marziano were there, but there are plenty of ways he could have met Chrysoloras, such as in Florence. My guess is that Marziano was in Florence for at least some of the 1390s, and if that is after 1396, he would have surely have met the Greek scholar.

This essay by Charalambos Dendrinos gives a bibliography to search -



I can't find his first item, in Russian, although many volumes of this journal are at the Münchiner DigitalisiersungsZentrum https://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/inde ... =&kl=&l=de - they all appear to be in the 19th century, none for 1912.
If searching, try this title "Путешествіе византійекаго императора Мануила II Палеолога по западной Европѣ."
Author Васильевъ (Vasiliev).
Issues up 1908 are are from archive.org here -
http://mir.k156.ru/zhmnp/zhmnp_index.html
Possibly 1912 is up somewhere too. The author mentions that almost all issues "are" at knigafund.ru, but this site is no longer working.
An easier list is here, but it stops at 1908 as well -
https://runivers.ru/lib/book7643/

The second, the article by Martin Jugie, is here - https://www.persee.fr/doc/rebyz_1146-94 ... 15_95_3997
Jugie only mentions the stay at Pavia in passing on pages 326-327, so it adds nothing to our knowledge.

The third, by Gustave Schlumberger, is here - https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k ... checontact
Pages 15-16 narrate the stay in Pavia, but gives no more information, such as dates. A pattern in this voyage seems to be emerging, that there is not really much detailed information about it.

The fourth citation, by Andreeva, is from Byzantinische Zeitschrift, 1937, which is here in PDF -
But this article is nowhere in it.
The same PDF is here - http://byzantinorossica.org.ru/sources/ ... (1937).pdf

Dendrinos made a mistake, the date of the Byzantinische Zeitschrift is 1934 -
https://www.degruyter.com/view/journals ... le-p37.xml
But the artlcle costs €30 euros.

Here it is - - or -
http://byzantinorossica.org.ru/sources/ ... (1936).pdf

Again no help for us, just new publication of archival material for the years 1402-1403.

Dendrinos' final bibliiographic item, Barker's biography of Manuel II, is here -

- but you'll have to upload something to get something, as usual at that site. The visit to Pavia is mentioned, on pages xvii (in passing) and 171-172, without any more precision of date. Except that he says that "By the end of May the Emperor was well on his way to France."

Now we come up against a chronological conundrum: Barker says on page 171 that on 4 April, the Sapientes of Venice assigned 200 ducats for the Emperor's expenses, "and Manual arrived (presumably) not long after." But we appear to have him in Pavia, already in March. How is this possible? Somebody is wrong, or I am wrong to read Theodoropoulou's date of 11 March for Manuel and John Chrysoloras in Pisa as having any bearing on the date of Manuel Palaeologus' stay in Pavia. But Beccaria's party is supposed to have been there in March, with the Emperor.

Maybe more on Beccaria and Gian Galeazzo Visconti would clear it up.

The basis for the 4 April date is this text, page 229 -
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k ... checontact
"4 avril 1400.
On décide à Venise de dépenser 200 ducats "pro honorando dominum Chiermanoli, imperatorem Constantinopolitanum".
(Archivio di Stato di Venezia, Maggior Consiglio, Libro Leona, fol. 105 v°.)"
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Re: What are the documents for Marziano's dates?

#498
English Wiki to Chrysoloras:
Chrysoloras was born in Constantinople to a distinguished family. In 1390, he led an embassy sent to Venice by the Byzantine emperor Manuel II Palaeologus to implore the aid of the Christian princes against the Muslim Turks. Roberto de' Rossi of Florence met him in Venice, and, in 1395, Rossi's acquaintance Giacomo da Scarperia set off for Constantinople to study Greek with Chrysoloras. In 1396, Coluccio Salutati, the Chancellor of Florence, invited him to Florence to teach Greek grammar and literature, quoting Cicero:

"The verdict of our own Cicero confirms that we Romans either made wiser innovations than theirs by ourselves or improved on what we took from them, but of course, as he himself says elsewhere with reference to his own day: "Italy is invincible in war, Greece in culture." For our part, and we mean no offence, we firmly believe that both Greeks and Latins have always taken learning to a higher level by extending it to each other's literature."
Chrysoloras arrived in the winter of 1397, an event remembered by one of his most famous pupils, the humanist scholar Leonardo Bruni, as a great new opportunity: there were many teachers of law, but no one had studied Greek in northern Italy for 700 years. Another very famous pupil of Chrysoloras was Ambrogio Traversari, who became general of the Camaldolese order. Chrysoloras remained only a few years in Florence, from 1397 to 1400, teaching Greek, starting with the rudiments. He moved on to teach in Bologna and later in Venice and Rome. Though he taught widely, a handful of his chosen students remained a close-knit group, among the first humanists of the Renaissance. Among his pupils were numbered some of the foremost figures of the revival of Greek studies in Renaissance Italy. Aside from Bruni and Ambrogio Traversari, they included Guarino da Verona and Palla Strozzi.

Having visited Milan and Pavia, and having resided for several years at Venice, he went to Rome on the invitation of Bruni, who was then secretary to Pope Gregory XII. In 1408, he was sent to Paris on an important mission from the emperor Manuel Palaeologus. In 1413, he went to Germany on an embassy to the emperor Sigismund, the object of which was to fix a place for the church council that later assembled at Constance. Chrysoloras was on his way there, having been chosen to represent the Greek Church, when he died suddenly.
German wiki has the contradiction, that Chrysoloras came 1393 (likely wrong).
Further the studies of the council in Constance had the result, that he died in Constance and not on his way to Constance (or at least he was near to Constance and was buried there short after his death). He died April 15 and was buried April 25 (if I remember correctly).

This German version has better qualities: https://de.qwe.wiki/wiki/Manuel_Chrysoloras
Chrysoloras wurde in Konstantinopel in eine angesehene Familie geboren. 1390 leitete er eine Botschaft, die der byzantinische Kaiser Manuel II. Paläologus nach Venedig sandte, um die Hilfe der christlichen Fürsten gegen die muslimischen Türken zu erbitten . Roberto de 'Rossi aus Florenz traf ihn in Venedig , und 1395 machte sich Rossis Bekannter Giacomo da Scarperia auf den Weg nach Konstantinopel, um bei Chrysoloras Griechisch zu lernen. 1396 lud ihn Coluccio Salutati , der Kanzler von Florenz , nach Florenz ein, um griechische Grammatik und Literatur zu unterrichten, und zitierte Cicero :

"Das Urteil unseres eigenen Cicero bestätigt, dass wir Römer entweder klügere Innovationen als ihre selbst gemacht oder das, was wir ihnen abgenommen haben, verbessert haben, aber natürlich, wie er selbst an anderer Stelle in Bezug auf seinen eigenen Tag sagt:" Italien ist im Krieg unbesiegbar , Griechenland in der Kultur. "Wir für unseren Teil, und wir meinen keine Beleidigung, glauben fest daran, dass sowohl Griechen als auch Lateinamerikaner das Lernen immer auf ein höheres Niveau gebracht haben, indem sie es auf die Literatur des jeweils anderen ausgedehnt haben."
Chrysoloras kam im Winter 1397 an, ein Ereignis, an das sich einer seiner berühmtesten Schüler, der humanistische Gelehrte Leonardo Bruni , als große neue Gelegenheit erinnerte: Es gab viele Rechtslehrer, aber in Norditalien hatte 700 Jahre lang niemand Griechisch gelernt . Ein anderer sehr berühmter Schüler von Chrysoloras war Ambrogio Traversari , der General des Kamaldolenordens wurde . Chrysoloras blieb von 1397 bis 1400 nur wenige Jahre in Florenz und unterrichtete Griechisch, beginnend mit den Grundlagen. Er unterrichtete in Bologna und später in Venedig und Rom. Obwohl er viel unterrichtete, blieb eine Handvoll seiner ausgewählten Schüler eine eng verbundene Gruppe unter den ersten Humanisten der Renaissance . Unter seinen Schülern befanden sich einige der bedeutendsten Persönlichkeiten der Wiederbelebung der griechischen Studien in der italienischen Renaissance. Neben Bruni und Ambrogio Traversari gehörten dazu Guarino da Verona und Palla Strozzi .

Nachdem er Mailand und Pavia besucht und mehrere Jahre in Venedig gelebt hatte , ging er auf Einladung von Bruni, der damals Sekretär von Papst Gregor XII . War , nach Rom . 1408 wurde er auf einer wichtigen Mission des Kaisers Manuel Palaeologus nach Paris geschickt . 1413 ging er mit einer Botschaft zum Kaiser Sigismund nach Deutschland , deren Ziel es war, einen Platz für den später in Konstanz versammelten Kirchenrat zu schaffen . Chrysoloras war auf dem Weg dorthin, nachdem er ausgewählt worden war, die griechische Kirche zu vertreten, als er plötzlich starb. Sein Tod führte zu Gedenkaufsätzen, aus denen Guarino da Verona in Chrysolorina eine Sammlung machte .
But some details also look wrong.
Chrysoloras remained only a few years in Florence, from 1397 to 1400, teaching Greek, starting with the rudiments. He moved on to teach in Bologna and later in Venice and Rome. Though he taught widely, a handful of his chosen students remained a close-knit group, among the first humanists of the Renaissance. Among his pupils were numbered some of the foremost figures of the revival of Greek studies in Renaissance Italy. Aside from Bruni and Ambrogio Traversari, they included Guarino da Verona and Palla Strozzi.

Having visited Milan and Pavia, and having resided for several years at Venice, he went to Rome on the invitation of Bruni, who was then secretary to Pope Gregory XII.
This reads, as if Crysoloras was in Florence winter 1397 - 1400 and then in Bologna, Venice and Rome. But you have documents for 3 years in Pavia, and in the Milanese domain. There's a contradiction.

**********

Your link ...
http://springer.iq-technikum.de/referen ... 48-4_783-1
... is definitely better than this mine competing information. Very good article. .... .-) .... Best, I would delete my material, and I would leave only this commentary.
In the middle of July 1414, Chrysoloras left Bologna and, in company with Guarino of Verona, travelled to Venice; the reason for this journey is unknown. In the late summer or early autumn of 1414, Chrysoloras may have visited Emperor Manuel II Palaeologus in Thasos or in Thessalonica (Loenertz 1950, pp. 70–71; Dennis 1977, p. xxxvii; cf. Thorn-Wickert 2006, pp. 104–105). According to Cammelli (1941, pp. 163–164), however, Chrysoloras, after visiting Venice, returned to Bologna and from there departed with the papal delegation on 1 October 1414 for the Council of Constance, the proceedings of which he attended from the start as representative of the Greek delegation. It is undeniable that Chrysoloras travelled to Constance in the autumn of 1414, albeit it is disputable whether or not he accompanied Pope John XXIII, who arrived in Constance on 28 October 1414 (Loenertz 1950, p. 71; Thorn-Wickert 2006, p. 107). What is certain is that Chrysoloras participated in the Council of Constance (1414–1418), which ended the Great Western Schism with the election of the new Pope, Martin V, in November 1417. Chrysoloras’ death occurred a few months after the Council of Constance had begun, on 15 April 1415; he died from high fever and was buried in the Dominican convent. From Pier Paolo Vergerio’s funeral oration on Chrysoloras (text in Thorn-Wickert 2006, pp. 118–119; cf. Cammelli 1941, pp. 167–168), we learn that Chrysoloras’ presence at the Council of Constance was so dominant that he was considered as one of the possible candidates for the papal throne. This is also demonstrated by Guarino of Verona’s letter addressed to Jacopo de Fabris (on 1 July 1416), as well as by Battista Guarino’s letter addressed to his father Guarino of Verona (Cammelli 1941, p. 166; Thorn-Wickert 2006, p. 115).
The question was, if Marziano (if he indeed visited Constance before May 5 1415) might have met Chrysoloras in 1415. Yes, he could have met him. But we still don't know, if Marziano was close to Chrysoloras.

The commission of Marziano for iconographic details in a playing card deck with Greek-Roman gods figures give the impression, that Marziano was considered to be an expert for these topics. Can we conclude from this, that he had a reading ability for Greek texts? If he even was able to speak Greek language we might conclude that Marziano was invited to accompany the stay of the young emperor in Milan/Pavia in the spring of 1424.

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https://www.foto-schuhmacher.de/i/beise ... loras.html
The pictures are from 19th century. The author gives the info, that the author Maurer had April 13 instead April 15.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: What are the documents for Marziano's dates?

#499
Huck wrote:
22 Sep 2020, 11:30

The question was, if Marziano (if he indeed visited Constance before May 5 1415) might have met Chrysoloras in 1415. Yes, he could have met him. But we still don't know, if Marziano was close to Chrysoloras.

The commission of Marziano for iconographic details in a playing card deck with Greek-Roman gods figures give the impression, that Marziano was considered to be an expert for these topics. Can we conclude from this, that he had a reading ability for Greek texts? If he even was able to speak Greek language we might conclude that Marziano was invited to accompany the stay of the young emperor in Milan/Pavia in the spring of 1424.

**********

https://www.foto-schuhmacher.de/i/beise ... loras.html
The pictures are from 19th century. The author gives the info, that the author Maurer had April 13 instead April 15.
Theodoropoulou at the springer link also says that Chrysoloras also went to Rome on Bruni's invitation after November 1406, when Gregory XII was Pope. Marziano was notary of the Apostolic Camera for Gregory XII, so here is another chance for Marziano and Chrysoloras to have met.

I have not come across any indication that Marziano knew Greek at all, but I would surmise that all the humanists would have learned something of the language, beyond the alphabet and the Byzantine script. Speaking it sounds unlikely, I would think that one would have to have spent time in Greek-speaking places. It still intrigues me that Greek speakers from southern Italy did not have any role in the transmission of Greek in the Renaissance. There were Greek churches and monasteries in Calabria. One of the manuscripts of Marziano's Tractatus de deificatione sexdecim heroum was found among the books of a monk in the monastery of Saint Giovanni Terestì (Giovanni Theristis) in Stilo, Calabria, by Vito Capialbi in the early 19th century.

https://www.partitodelsud.eu/2009/08/mo ... estis.html
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Theristis

How the manuscript got there we don't know, and we can't know much more until we see it one day. Here is Capialbi's description in 1835 -
https://books.google.fr/books?id=o3lBAA ... re&f=false
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