Re: Orfeo packs now dated but still mysterious
Posted: 08 Feb 2021, 10:17
Phaeded,
I haven't shown you this one.
The Lucca Tarocchi has 69 cards and that's (possibly) of some importance for the year number 1369, as already shown in the thread ...
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2035&p=23297#p23297 .... Lucca Tarocchi / Repubblica Lucca#1
At another place and another deck, the Rosenwald Tarocchi sheet, ....
http://trionfi.com/rosenwald-tarocchi-sheet .... by Franco Pratesi
.... appeared another 69 and the situation demands some attention.
Block 1
Block 2
Block 3
Franco suggested, that the Rosenwald Tarocchi was meant as a Minchiate with one additional 4th sheet missing (containing 19 trumps, four 10s and one Queen). In the internal discussion the suggestion was made, that the Rosenwald was mixed deck type, with the intention, that one could produce with 4 woodblocks 3 different deck types . This theory assumed:
A. Block 1 + Block 2 could produce a 48-cards deck with 4x12 structure and 1-9, Kings, Cavallo and Fante (no Queens, no 10s)
B. Block 1 + Block 2 + Block 3 could produce a Trionfi deck with either 69 or 72 cards. Block 3 added either 21 Trumps or 21 Trumps
+ 3 Queens.
C. Block 1 + Block 2 + Block 3 + Block 4 could either produce a 96 cards Minchiate or a 97 cards Minchiate with a Fool, who must be produced by another 5th woodblock.
The version A was proven some time (c 2016) later, when we detected the value of the Assissi deck.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1105&p=18118&hilit=assissi#p18118
There was also discussed, that the function of the 3 Queens in Block 3 was not clear.
Version B and the 69 stood isolated, but now with Lucca and its 69 cards and the year 1369 there's suddenly a context. Florence and Lucca were occasionally difficult neighbours.
In 1437 Florence attacked and conquered Montecarlo, the small city, which was founded by Karl IV. (about 20 km distance to Lucca). In 1440 Piccinino returned ... there was something, I remember.
For Minchiate (Blocks 1-4) we have the game with 14 cards for each suit and totally 40 trump cards, and 14 and 40 make 1440, if one assumes, that the Fool didn't exist).
Well, this makes sense, if one assumes, that Lucca made a card deck, which expressed the year 1369 to honor the value of the republic.
In 14th century Lucca is said to have had 250 Towers. The Guinigi Tower still stands.
I haven't shown you this one.
The Lucca Tarocchi has 69 cards and that's (possibly) of some importance for the year number 1369, as already shown in the thread ...
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2035&p=23297#p23297 .... Lucca Tarocchi / Repubblica Lucca#1
At another place and another deck, the Rosenwald Tarocchi sheet, ....
http://trionfi.com/rosenwald-tarocchi-sheet .... by Franco Pratesi
.... appeared another 69 and the situation demands some attention.
Block 1
Block 2
Block 3
Franco suggested, that the Rosenwald Tarocchi was meant as a Minchiate with one additional 4th sheet missing (containing 19 trumps, four 10s and one Queen). In the internal discussion the suggestion was made, that the Rosenwald was mixed deck type, with the intention, that one could produce with 4 woodblocks 3 different deck types . This theory assumed:
A. Block 1 + Block 2 could produce a 48-cards deck with 4x12 structure and 1-9, Kings, Cavallo and Fante (no Queens, no 10s)
B. Block 1 + Block 2 + Block 3 could produce a Trionfi deck with either 69 or 72 cards. Block 3 added either 21 Trumps or 21 Trumps
+ 3 Queens.
C. Block 1 + Block 2 + Block 3 + Block 4 could either produce a 96 cards Minchiate or a 97 cards Minchiate with a Fool, who must be produced by another 5th woodblock.
The version A was proven some time (c 2016) later, when we detected the value of the Assissi deck.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1105&p=18118&hilit=assissi#p18118
There was also discussed, that the function of the 3 Queens in Block 3 was not clear.
Version B and the 69 stood isolated, but now with Lucca and its 69 cards and the year 1369 there's suddenly a context. Florence and Lucca were occasionally difficult neighbours.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_LuccaThe alliance between the Republic that at the time was controlled by the Guinigi family and the Duchy of Milan led Lucca into the ruinous war against Republic of Venice and Republic of Florence; towards the end of this war, an insurrection finally ended the dominion of the Guinigi family and the republic had to negotiated in order not to lose its independence, which led it to lose parts of its former territories.[8]
In 1429 Florence besieged Lucca to take revenge on the republic. After several days of siege, the republic of Lucca asked Duchy of Milan for help. The Duchy sent Francesco I Sforza, who overwhelmed the Florentines with his army and forced them to retreat. A few days after the retreat of the Florentines, the inhabitants of Lucca arrested Paolo Guinigi, the leader of the republic, because he was said to have dealt with the Florentines. Florence later paid Sforza to abandon Lucca and, in 1430, Lucca was besieged once again. During the siege the Florentines tried to stem the Serchio to flood Lucca, but due to some errors the Florentine camp flooded. Meanwhile the Lucchesi asked again for help from Filippo Maria Visconti, duke of Milan, who, once again, acted indirectly (according to a previous treaty Milan could not interfere in the affairs of Florence) asking the Republic of Genoa to help Lucca. Genoa, relying on an ancient alliance with Lucca, asked Florence not to disturb Lucca. When Florence refused, Genoa sent an army of 6,000 men led by Niccolò Piccinino who attacked the Florentines on the Serchio and, after a bloody battle, they were forced to withdraw because the Lucchesi had taken them behind leaving the city.
In 1437 Florence attacked and conquered Montecarlo, the small city, which was founded by Karl IV. (about 20 km distance to Lucca). In 1440 Piccinino returned ... there was something, I remember.
For Minchiate (Blocks 1-4) we have the game with 14 cards for each suit and totally 40 trump cards, and 14 and 40 make 1440, if one assumes, that the Fool didn't exist).
Well, this makes sense, if one assumes, that Lucca made a card deck, which expressed the year 1369 to honor the value of the republic.
In 14th century Lucca is said to have had 250 Towers. The Guinigi Tower still stands.